Looks like I am going to court with Gladstones.

onearmbandit

Hello everyone, thank you for such a great site - I am reading as much as I can although I cannot deny that I am becoming overwhelmed and confused about what I am actually trying to do. I would REALLY love some help if any can be offered.

In July I became lost after moving to a new town and parked up for 5 mins, leaving my car to find someone to speak to. I was trying to get to a supermarket which was on the other side of a wall from where I parked.

When I returned I found a PCN waiting for me - I mean, how this chap did this in such speedy time was unbelievable. They really were/are lying in wait to get people - I was so angry I refused then and there to pay,.

I emailed link parking saying I was willing to cover the financial cost they felt was lost - they refused my challenge and told me to challenge the PCN with IAS. I did not do this as it became clear that the IAS is a kangaroo court.

Since then I have received a notice to keeper and letter before claim from Gladstones. I have challenged and since received a response from Gladstones regarding this.

I am certain I am now going to court - this is how Gladstones get paid so it is now getting serious.

Below is my my challenge to the LBC with the Gladstone response underneath each point in Italics.


Dear Sir/Madam

Ref : xxxxx
PCN: xxxxx

I acknowledge that I have received your Letter Before Claim dated 27th October 2016 on the 30/10/2016.

I deny any debt to Link Parking Ltd

In line with practice directions, please provide the following information so that I may file a defence.

1) Please provide a signage map showing entrance signage

Response: This will be provided in our clients witness statement should the case continue to court

2) Please state whether you believe the charge is for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge.

Response: Contractual Charge

3) If it is a contract, then please provide a clear copy of the signage that you allege forms a contract between myself the defendant and link parking, the claimant

Response: There will be numerous signs around the site, the motorist will have seen at least one of the signs. The site has been audited by our clients accredited trade association

4) State whether you are claiming keeper liability exists. It is believed that link parking has not met or chosen not to invoke the Keeper liability provisions of POFA2012 and therefore there is no possible cause of action against the vehicles keeper. POFA Sched 4 para 8 or 9 both require this...

Response: You are being pursued as the driver of the vehicle as you have failed to discharge liability or suggest otherwise

5) Whether your client is the landowner, or is acting as agent of the landowner

Response: Our client has a contract with the landowner

6) Whether your client has lost any court claims regarding this site, or sites with similar signage

Response: Not relevant

7) Under CPR 31.2 and 31.14 I request a copy of the contract between link parking & the land owner

Response: Not relevant

8) Furthermore, with regards to the additional £50, I understand that the maximum sum that can be claimed from the keeper, according to POFA Schedule 4(5), is the amount of the original parking charge. A claim for an amount that you know cannot be recovered would be a breach of the Solicitors Code of Conduct.

Response: This was ignored by Gladstones.

I will continue to educate myself as best I can although any thoughts and suggestions would be most welcome! I simply do not know how to reply, what to do next or what my actual challenge is.

Many thanks in advance.

onearmbandit

I will post up my PCN, NTK and LBC for all to see shortly.

From what I can see they all adhere to the provisions of POFA - except for a period of parking. Nothing was mentioned about this. Is that a cause for exploration??

Umkomaas

I doubt any IPC operator's NtK is PoFA compliant. In fact many follow a strategy of not attempting to invoke keeper liability, hence perma-advice here is never to reveal who the driver was.

Ensure you redact anything you're linking of details that identify you - name, address, precise timings of parking, VRN, PCN ref number, barcodes etc, etc.

beamerguy

Ever seen the ITV program "Off their Rockers" ??

Gladstones make money from their own clients such as Link.

Read the Pranksters reports about Link failures and why
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=link

As you will see from one report
Link Parking lose in court. Gladstones 'witness' statement reaches new low of incompetence

Then all about Gladstones and how they lose costing the PPC money
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?q=gladstones

And again a comment from the Prankster ..
"Why (Gladstones) are Incompetent Scammers"

Gladstones are currently under investigation by the SRA

Stating "The site has been audited by our clients accredited trade association"

This is so much rubbish .... the IPC/IAS they refer to is owned and run by Gladstones ?????? "OFF THEIR ROCKERS"

You now know why they lose in court, they are incompetent so your job is to work on their incompetence and get yourself a good line of defence and make them lose again ..... if they are stupid enough to take you to court.

It's amazing that Link run with the Gladstones boys again, as it cost them money.

The_Deep

Read up on grace periods on the IPC code of practice.

I very much doubt that Gladstones will take this to court, but if they do, they will struggle imo. If they take you to court read about the costs you can claim for unreasonable behaviour if you win. CPR27.14(2)(g).

Write to them informing them that, if they take you to court and lose, you will be seeking "unreasonable behaviour" costs.

You could be on a nice littler earner here.

onearmbandit

Thank you for the replies thus far. Really helpful.

I do think this will go to court - this is the only way Gladstones get paid - they get paid win or lose so they will push this. I am happy to go to court to be honest.

Ok - unfortunately it seems I am unable to attach the notice before keeper & Letter before claim images as no attachments are allowed? Any way around this???

I would have loved people to have given these an overlook, to see if they have failed to comply in anyway - I can't see anything personally - but other more expert eyes may have helped. It would have been nice to post them so others can get an idea of what Link parking & Gladstone literature looks like.

As to my appeal. I am not sure if grace periods apply here - as far as I can see, grace periods refer to an overstay of an already paid for ticket - no ticket was bought.

Also, with regards to observation periods - this does not apply in my case either because the parking attendant only needs to establish if a person is loading/offloading - if not, then they will be deemed to have parked and a fine is delivered straight away

Am I wrong on these points???

May I ask - should the PCN have contained a PERIOD i.e. how long I was parked? The PCN nor the notice to keeper letter contained this.

I am also looking at the signage - does it really constitute a contract? I will write out the wording on the signage verbatim seeing as I cannot post an image of it. Please let me know what you lot think.

There was no signage on the entrance to the site - should there have been??

These people are such scoundrels - I want to them to lose this so bad. I'd have been willing to reach a compromise but they clearly just want to screw innocent people out of hard earned money - they are the lowest of the low.

Rant over!

onearmbandit

Here is the main part of the signage which 'apparently' constitutes a contract between me and the landowner.

" WARNING
PRIVATE LAND - CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT
Parking in this area is permitted for vehicles fully displaying a valid parking permit
By parking or remaining on this site other than in accordance with the above, you, the driver are agreeing to the following contractual terms. You agree to pay consideration in the form of a 'parking charge' in the sum to be paid of £100 to be paid within 28 days of issue. This is reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days"

Quentin

onearmbandit wrote: »

Ok - unfortunately it seems I am unable to attach the notice before keeper & Letter before claim images as no attachments are allowed? Any way around this???

I would have loved people to have given these an overlook,......

Host your docs at a hosting site, then post the links here, (leave out the www. and someone will post live links for you)

beamerguy

As a new member, you cannot post working links on here

Simply upload to a free hosting site like photobucket and show the links here use hxxp:// and someone will make them live for you

Redx

onearmbandit wrote: »

I will post up my PCN, NTK and LBC for all to see shortly.

From what I can see they all adhere to the provisions of POFA - except for a period of parking. Nothing was mentioned about this. Is that a cause for exploration??

if you appealed the windscreen ticket promptly you may well have given away who was driving (or implied it from what you posted)

so if you did not stay in KEEPER mode and have revealed who was driving , then any POFA2012 issues are not relevant !

these companies rarely comply with POFA2012, but if they know who was driving, or it is admitted in the email you sent , they dont have to comply with POFA, as POFA is nothing to do with the driver

Coupon-mad

I am certain I am now going to court - this is how Gladstones get paid so it is now getting serious. I do think this will go to court...

I don't. I think it will go to court papers but that's not the same as going to a court hearing in the end. We've never seen a Gladstones one go to a hearing on here, after one of our forum-assisted defences has been filed. No hearings, therefore no losses. I would expect G's to discontinue it later on.

Your questions about periods of parking and grace periods are EXACTLY like this poster:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5521414

...beware - the draft 'defence' shown at #99 is NOT a recommended forum defence, far too short and says nothing at all/cites no cases. Do not copy that. I am showing you that thread merely because the 'period of parking' question has just been done to death already today!

You will already know from bargepole's post linked under 'Small Claim?'* in the NEWBIES thread, that the case will be heard at your local court but please search the forum for the words: 'Gladstones straightforward' once you have submitted your defence because if one more person asks about G's 'Special Directions' tedious letter enclosing a copy of their DQ and pretending it would be a jolly wheeze to hear the case 'on the papers', I will scream! It is discussed on every G's claim thread. After you've submitted your defence, be ready for round two.


*example defences are there too