Inter generational fairness

ukcarper

mwpt wrote: »

I'm not, the system need changing.

But it works both ways. On here it is extremely common to call today's youth lazy, unwilling to save, won't vote, own fault for brexit etc. If it is acceptable to do that (and it's not) then why isn't it acceptable for ruggedtoast to call the boomer generation selfish (again, not something I engage in).

True but most sensible people realise that the truth is somewhere in between.

ukcarper

mwpt wrote: »

I'm not sure who you're trying to convince though misbiggles. I've said multiple times I don't blame the boomers, so we agree on that, right?

But I'm just going to have to disagree with you about the youth. I just don't agree with labelling an entire generation as lazy as if human biology has somehow changed over one generation. It feels to me that - without meaning to - you're saying the previous generations were superior.

I certainly don't believe people have changed over the last 60 years but the circumstances it which they live certainly have. As I boomer I had no access to easy credit and if I wanted something I had to save for it or go without I believe that was a good lesson in life. That is not the case now and if I had been born 30 years later I suspect my attitude to credit and saving would be completely different.

mwpt

ukcarper wrote: »

I certainly don't believe people have changed over the last 60 years but the circumstances it which they live certainly have. As I boomer I had no access to easy credit and if I wanted something I had to save for it or go without I believe that was a good lesson in life. That is not the case now and if I had been born 30 years later I suspect my attitude to credit and saving would be completely different.

Indeed. But I don't think the youth had much involvement in creating a massively debt based system, and guess who the main beneficiaries are of such a system? The existing asset owners.

ukcarper

mwpt wrote: »

Indeed. But I don't think the youth had much involvement in creating a massively debt based system, and guess who the main beneficiaries are of such a system? The existing asset owners.

The beneficiaries are very few certainly not the majority of boomers and everybody who uses the credit system be it credit cards, mortgages or any other form of credit must take some responsibility.

My main asset is my house which is worth about 25% more that it would have been had it just kept up with earnings and as I need to live in it it is not a real benefit.

lisyloo

ukcarper wrote: »

The beneficiaries are very few certainly not the majority of boomers and everybody who uses the credit system be it credit cards, mortgages or any other form of credit must take some responsibility.

My main asset is my house which is worth about 25% more that it would have been had it just kept up with earnings and as I need to live in it it is not a real benefit.

I'm gen x.
Please tell me what I have to take responsibility for.
I have not spent more on anything simply because credit was available. I may have used credit where there was a benefit but never to buy things I should not have.
In what way am I responsible please.

ukcarper

lisyloo wrote: »

I'm gen x.
Please tell me what I have to take responsibility for.
I have not spent more on anything simply because credit was available. I may have used credit where there was a benefit but never to buy things I should not have.
In what way am I responsible please.

I'm not sure why you think you should personally take responsibility I don't, but I don't think you can blame the banks etc entirely if people did not take advantage of easy credit there would not be I quote "a massively debt based system".

lisyloo

Ah I see what you mean.
I am a great believer in personal responsibility both for finances and generally, but I also believe the general public can be considered relatively unsophisticated in the face of marketing, advertising by organisations who are sophisticated as such activities.
Therefore if I had to allocate blame I'd go for 60/40.

Personally I've noticed that my behaviour is very driven by government policy, in particular taxation.
So for example if the government says you can have your PPR gains free from income tax and CGT then I'd be inclined to buy a big house.
That's just one example, but you can throw government policy into the mix too as saving has not been incentivised and indebtedness particularly with property has arguably been incentives by government

missbiggles1

mwpt wrote: »

I'm not sure who you're trying to convince though misbiggles. I've said multiple times I don't blame the boomers, so we agree on that, right?

But I'm just going to have to disagree with you about the youth. I just don't agree with labelling an entire generation as lazy as if human biology has somehow changed over one generation. It feels to me that - without meaning to - you're saying the previous generations were superior.

I wasn't trying to convince anybody, neither was I saying (if you notice) that young people are lazy - in fact you seem to have totally misread my post.:(

I was simply sayimg that the mistakes that boomers made were made from a position of ignorance, an excuse that young people nowadays can't make.

lisyloo

missbiggles1 wrote: »

I wasn't trying to convince anybody, neither was I saying (if you notice) that young people are lazy - in fact you seem to have totally misread my post.:(

I was simply sayimg that the mistakes that boomers made were made from a position of ignorance, an excuse that young people nowadays can't make.

I'm fairly well educated I.e. To degree level, but when I was 22 I made some mistakes - like I was persuaded to take an endowment mortgage and I took a pension that has terrible exit penalties before 65.

Do you really think young people are now very clued up on all these kind of things? I personally don't think that they are in a much better position and if anything the "smoke and mirrors" of marketing are ever more sophisticated.

I am more clued up now, but that's because I'm older I.e. The university of life, not because of the changing times.

chucknorris

lisyloo wrote: »

I took a pension that has terrible exit penalties before 65.

If only you had spent the money on renting an Edinburgh bedsit (or 1,000's of alcoholic drinks), what on Earth was going on in your mind?

I took out a pension when I was 18 or 19 (only a small one) but I am leaving it to mature when I'm 65, because it is giving decent returns (albeit on only £56k) and also if I stay in until maturity, I will get a decent terminal bonus (maybe you will too, and would have been better off staying in until 65 as well, even without those exit terms you mentioned). I massively went off pensions in my 20's, only to switch back onto them in my 50's.