Laminated glass windows on Croydon tram

littlerock

I was under the impression that trains, light railways, etc all had non breakable windows these days, which is why you do not see those little hammers any more. Because it is recommended by the RSSB to have non breakable windows in railway vehicles as the biggest cause of death in railway accidents is people being thrown or falling out of the window and being trapped underneath the train when it leaves the track and topples over.

Yet the windows all came out or shattered (not clear which) on the Croydon tram (strictly speaking it is light railway.) And people were thrown out and trapped under the train. So clearly the glass in their windows is not unbreakable.

I read that their glass is laminated - does that mean it shatters into thousands of tiny pieces, like car windscreens used to? That is not going to save anyone then if the train falls on its side and rolls over.

Does anyone know what type of glass the service has in its windows? If it is not unbreakable is this because the light railways are excluded from the legislation or maybe for technical reasons, like it would make the train too heavy?

Stigy

The window hammers on trains have been removed to prevent vandalism as far as I'm aware. The same reason Fire Extinguishers have largely been removed. Train windows are laminated, but should still splinter with a window hammer. After using a hammer a trapped person should be able to kick the glass out.

As far as I'm aware, vehicle windows have been laminated from the factory for many years in this way. It's safest to have the window splinter in to millions of pieces, rather than like a household window where there's loose shards of glass presenting a risk.

custardy

Stigy wrote: »

The window hammers on trains have been removed to prevent vandalism as far as I'm aware. The same reason Fire Extinguishers have largely been removed. Train windows are laminated, but should still splinter with a window hammer. After using a hammer a trapped person should be able to kick the glass out.

As far as I'm aware, vehicle windows have been laminated from the factory for many years in this way. It's safest to have the window splinter in to millions of pieces, rather than like a household window where there's loose shards of glass presenting a risk.

Windscreens are laminated.
Other glass is tempered to break into small squares.

littlerock

The same trams as at Croydon are used in Dublin and searching around the internet I found a comment by the Irish company, following a window being shattered by a stone, that "the windows are designed to shatter if they cannot be opened from the drivers cab". At Croydon the windows shattered, passengers were thrown out and trapped under the train.

A report issued by the Rail Standards Safety Board in 2009, which I found online, recommended that all railways vehicles should have laminated windows and the hammers should be removed (See below) because research showed that the majority of fatal accidents on railways are caused by people being thrown out of the train and trapped under it when the windows break when the train turns on its side (which happened in Croydon.)

3.1.2 Passenger and crew containment

Analysis of train accidents that have occurred in the last 10 years showed that 20% of fatalities occurred through people being ejected through breakable windows (usually when a carriage has turned onto its side). If windows are strong or tough enough, they can prevent people from being ejected from trains during an accident.

One consequence of having all laminated windows is that passengers would no longer be able to use windows for escape after an accident without the intervention of the emergency services. However, if breakable, windows can be used to escape from trains after accidents.

Further exploration of the accidents database, and consideration of an extensive review of emergencies on trains overseas (including fires), found no examples where a life has been lost, or would have been lost, because of an inability to get out through the window.
The analysis showed that, if the breakable windows are replaced with essentially unbreakable windows (using laminated glass), then more people would be expected to survive accidents on those rare occasions when such events occur.

All bodyside windows in passenger and train crew areas on new vehicles should be fitted with laminated glass and have a high degree of containment; consideration should also be given to the frame and mountings. Windows on existing vehicles should be considered for progressive replacement with laminated glass, but should always be replaced when broken, subject to cost-benefit analysis on refurbishment.

To facilitate the incremental fitment of laminated glass, train operating companies (TOCs) should remove hammers and alter signage such that the primary egress route, in the event of an evacuation being required, is recognised as being via the doors and gangways instead of breakable windows.

In order to realise the full safety benefits of laminated windows, a consistent transition strategy should be developed and implemented across all TOCs. All passenger trains built since 1993 have mostly laminated windows, but the research confirmed that the best approach was to dispense with all designated escape windows.

The containment work in T424 (Requirements for train windows on passenger rail vehicles) has been developed into a series of measures for vehicle bodyside windows, including a comprehensive suite of test requirements. These are incorporated in GM/RT2100 Issue 4, which is currently undergoing industry consultation and is scheduled for publication in Spring 2010. The introduction of a common approach to escape is being coordinated by ATOC.

( http://www.rssb.co.uk/Library/risk-analysis-and-safety-reporting/2009-report-on-improvements-in-safety-in-train-accidents.pdf)

esuhl

Stigy wrote: »

The window hammers on trains have been removed to prevent vandalism as far as I'm aware. The same reason Fire Extinguishers have largely been removed. Train windows are laminated, but should still splinter with a window hammer. After using a hammer a trapped person should be able to kick the glass out.

As far as I'm aware, vehicle windows have been laminated from the factory for many years in this way. It's safest to have the window splinter in to millions of pieces, rather than like a household window where there's loose shards of glass presenting a risk.

Yep. Safety devices on trains have been removed to prevent vandalism.

I was once on a train when a group of six people onboard smashed every single window on the train -- including a few of the internal glass dividers. The train had arrived at a terminus, and they wanted to get off at the previous stop. After smashing all the windows, they waited onboard, as it was the last train back. The police were called, but (after a 90 minute wait), decided they were "too busy" to attend. Another hour later, they eventually got bored and got off the train, which was taken out of service. Yet another hour later the staff managed to get a replacement train to take everyone home.

It must've cost them a fortune, and the culprits presumably got off scot-free.

So, I'm not surprised they have been removed, but it's pretty sad that it's had to be done. You're probably more at risk of an idiot assaulting you with a safety hammer than you are to actually need one... :-/

wealdroam

littlerock wrote: »

A report issued by the Rail Standards Safety Board in 2009, which I found online, recommended that all railways vehicles should have laminated windows and the hammers should be removed...

RSSB's remit does not cover trams and light rail.

littlerock

Is there another body which does?