Death in Service and Pension lump sum

DISPension

Thank you xylophone,

I have answered their dependency form, but I bought the house that my mother raised me in from her in May of last year - So I wasn't dependant on her at all, although I am ashamed to admit she did still pay my phone bill!

My worry is that he will have filled the form saying that she paid the mortgage, bills etc and they will favour him, and I have no doubts in my mind she would turn in her grave if he got a penny.

I will get all the family members, and her friends that she spoke to this about to write statements about her wanting me to have it.

dunstonh

My worry is that he will have filled the form saying that she paid the mortgage, bills etc and they will favour him, and I have no doubts in my mind she would turn in her grave if he got a penny.

You need to prepare yourself for it. There was a joint account and a joint mortgage. It shows linked finances. You would not be surprised if the trustees split the death in service so at minimum the mortgage was repaid. Especially as the house was owned as joint tenants and not tenants in common. The latter would have seen you inherit her share of the house. The former sees the other owner inherit her share. Joint tenancy is typically used by people in a comfortable relationship whereas tenants in common is used where people are less willing to give up their ownership rights.

DISPension

dunstonh the mortgage was joint tenants because he put 50k down as a deposit for the mortgage and my mother paid the payments.

They did it so that if my mother died he wouldn't lose that 50k which I think is fair

bowlhead99

DISPension wrote: »

dunstonh the mortgage was joint tenants because he put 50k down as a deposit for the mortgage and my mother paid the payments.

They did it so that if my mother died he wouldn't lose that 50k which I think is fair

Right, so if she dies he owns the house including all the money she put into it and if he dies she owns the house including everything he put into it.

As Dunstonh suggests, this doesn't sound like a casual relationship that was expected to be short term. If they had wanted to keep their affairs separate they could have easily put the house documentation as tenants in common in unequal shares or with some deed of trust setting out who gets the benefit of their respective contributions over time. They didn't do that, they set it up as a "family home" which would belong entirely to whoever survived the other.

So, with that and the joint bank accounts their finances appear closely linked, and all the trustees have to go on, is appearances.

As xylophone says, there are a variety of facts in your favour and she had not taken any action to nominate him the beneficiary of her payout. But he now has the responsibility of bearing the entire mortgage on the family home that they created that he lives in and she wanted him to have in the event of her passing (by going joint tenants rather than TIC). So with those facts and an outstanding debt on their house, you would expect him to say he has some sort of claim, even if she only signed the docs when drunk which you can't prove.

Not saying you should or will 'lose' this one, just that as Dunstonh suggests, you should prepare yourself for all possibilities as things are not always black and white when you stand back as an independent without knowing the intimate details.

DISPension

I understand in regards to the appearances as they are black and white.

I think I am going to get the family and my mothers friends to write letters to the trustees stating what my mother told them about her wishes which was for me to receive this money.

Would I be out of turn to add a covering letter in regards to them having separate beds, him leaving her for the weekend when she died and also that her drinking started when they moved in together.

Him being away can be proved by the police statement, and her work have records of her going on the sick with depression (drinking etc) linked to them moving in together.

He is renting out the house now, and living in the 21k caravan that my mum bought

dunstonh

I understand in regards to the appearances as they are black and white.

The problem is that it is not black and white. There are shades of grey. It is the four truths principle. 1) what you say the situation was 2) what the other parties will say the situation was 3) what the evidence and information suggests the situation was. 4) the actual truth.

I think I am going to get the family and my mothers friends to write letters to the trustees stating what my mother told them about her wishes which was for me to receive this money.

Which, in isolation of any facts or evidence, will look like a child getting friends to paint a picture to suit them. Its information for the trustees but without evidence, it will not carry a lot of strength.

Would I be out of turn to add a covering letter in regards to them having separate beds, him leaving her for the weekend when she died and also that her drinking started when they moved in together.

A lot of couples dont sleep in the same bed. It carries no weight. Him being away that particular weekend could easily be explained (even if the explanation is not the truth). Her mental illness could be for a number of reasons, not just due to him.

He may well paint a picture that they were happy together but they struggled with her mental illness and drinking and that his life was hard because of this. They found it easier to sleep in separate beds as he snored or her drinking made her toss and turn a lot. They bought a caravan so they could enjoy holidays around the country together. He loved her very much but life was difficult with her illness but he stuck with her.... So, they could have your story and they could have his story. What I just wrote was taking your words to SPIN the story the other way. This is the difficulty the trustees have and why evidence and provable information is relied on more.

Nobody here knows enough to make any judgement. There could be enough evidence made available to the trustees to make a decision or there could be very little and they make a judgement call. All we are saying here is that there is a possibility that he could get some or all of the money and you need to be prepared for that.

DISPension

I appreciate what you're saying, but it does feel like I need to be able to be proactive in regards to the trustees making the right decision. I have also been looking into court cases, one pertinent statement from a judge was that

, the judge said that the appropriate test is to ask whether
“the relationship is an emotional one of mutual lifetime commitment rather than simply
one of convenience, friendship, companionship or the living together of lovers…subject
to the qualification that the relationship must be openly and unequivocally displayed
to the outside world”

So if it came to it and the whole family and her friends stated that it was a resentful relationship that she didn't have the strength to leave, would that not hold some baring.

dunstonh

So if it came to it and the whole family and her friends stated that it was a resentful relationship that she didn't have the strength to leave, would that not hold some baring.

And he responds saying that the family hated him and they have ganged up and told lies because they never liked him. Who is to be believed?

I have also been looking into court cases, one pertinent statement from a judge was that

one statement it not enough. The judges have to consider many things and look at the individual circumstances with each case and how the witnesses acted in court. There is no point turning yourself into an armchair lawyer.

All you can do at this stage is put your case to the trustees. if you disagree then you visit a solicitor who will present your options.

DISPension

When you say put my case to them? They already know I am the executor and only son etc, should I leave it at that and await their decision?

Silvertabby

When you say put my case to them? They already know I am the executor and only son etc, should I leave it at that and await their decision?

Hmm - if you are the legal Executor, then the trustees may take the easy way out and pay the money to you for you to 'distribute in accordance with the law'. If they do that, and your mum's partner tries to claim the money from you, the Executor, then the only winners could be your solicitors.

You say that your mum didn't make a Will, so have you just assumed the role of Executor? Is it possible that the partner has already told the trustees that he has assumed the role?

Have you (or the partner) applied for Probate?