Help/advice with a (potential) employment tribunal

kellyp1811

Hi Everybody,

Thank you to anybody that reads this and thank you to anybody that has any advice for me

I will try and keep it as short and succinct as possible.

Ok so I had an 'investigation meeting' on monday 3rd october, it was an allegation of gross misconduct that i had been discussing company pay information. (I am a PA so confidentiality is part of my everyday job!) Company has more than 200 employees (if that helps anybody)

So i had this meeting and i did get quite upset by it (in the meeting) because i had never so much as had a telling off for anything in my entire working life (16+ years) so how this came about i just had no idea, i then remembered the conversation and i gave my very brief view of events (having been given no time to consider any of this as it was literally sprung on me on the monday morning) and i was in more shock and upset than anything.

I then asked the manager who was conducting the investigation a) why was it her that had to do it (because she is impartial - fair enough)
b) what did my line manager (and director of the company) think about all this and she said he doesnt know?! So i thought huh how can you do this without telling him??

At the end of this - still very upset i said how can i go back upstairs and face him now, so she went upstairs for me. She came back about 20 mins later and said he is suspending you, i was in total disbelief i just had no idea what was happening!!

Also I have epilepsy, I know I come under the Disability Act/Equality Act - my fits are also brought on my stress, no consideration was given to me for this, not even so much as an are you ok.

Now i really got on with the manager who did the meeting (so she wasnt really that impartial) neither here nor there really, but she did say off the record - if i was her member of staff this is gross misconduct and would most likely lead to dismissal. She said obv she cant give advice but - stay employed so you get a few extra days pay and resign on the day of the disciplinary. I went home in floods of tears.

Tuesday 4th - mail arrived at 2pm, with the letter inviting me to a disciplinary policy on the 6th, but the letter asked for a response to the allegations by 5pm that day - hardly fair!
As i read the minutes of the girl doing the accusing - they were out and out lies, i was outraged - also the letter said i can refer to the company disciplinary policy on our intranet system but of course i was suspended therefore unable to access it.

In my response that day to all these lies - i did counter balance it with a whole tonne of stuff she had said, also said i was disappointed to have the DP to refer to. They then sent this to me.

The response i got from that said he assured me no decision had been made (i knew that he did not want to actually sack me) and he urged me to attend the meeting on the 6th, so that he can investigate my claims. Now having the DP i responded with 'based on our policies' this girl had committed 'gross misconduct' also.

I therefore raised i grievance - for unfair treatment at the time because its not fair to do one without the other. This was not acknowledged (and i know why - it is because they could not do witiut both of us at work, our jobs overlapped - if she was on holiday i took her work and vice versa she would take some of mine) and they would be screwed without both of us! I mentioned this in 2 pieces of correspondence - both of which totally ignored.

On the 6th, i resigned, i felt they had made my job untenable. Genuinely not one to do a sob story - but i felt like i had been victimised and singled out, bullied by this girl for what reason i do not know and my disability was given no acknowledgement whatsoever.

The DVLA have returned my licence and the last thing i want is to have it taken away again because of another fit - entirely possible with the stress and upset.

The response was thank you and we accept it, but giving you to the 19th to withdraw it!!! On 19th i wrote and said i would not be withdrawing it and you have given no support to me whatsoever (which i know they have to) and i can no longer trust the company.
Also again reiterating about the grievance.

Response was i will discuss fully with HR and give a response monday (24th) no response. So i emailed 27th asking if this had been passed to HR and was them i was waiting on a response from. No reply.

So basically i want to know if i have a case to take forward?

I was also made redundant by them in may and i was asked to return after a month - which i did because i was fortunate enough to love my job :'(

I just think i have been treated so badly, without any consideration for the epilepsy, the bullying/lies, being told by other manager this is a sackable offence and if i was her staff i would be. i just felt based on the fact that i had been suspended and given that advice i could not return to that office and have everyone staring at me. The girl who i considered my 'best friend' at work had stabbed me in the back so badly and my grievance was not taken seriously.

It is not about money (although nobody would turn that down im sure) its about the fact that based on company policies and UK law they have not followed what they should and i want them to be accountable for that. Nobody else should need to feel like i have done these last few weeks :'(

Sorry for the essay - any advice/help gratefully received.

Thanks

sangie595

No, sorry - based on this you couldn't have got it more wrong if you tried. I can see not a thing here that suggests that they have not followed the law. What I do see is that you have, unfortunately, over-estimated the law.


You were not entitled to any notice of an investigatory meeting. If you required reasonable adjustments as a result of the process you should have asked for them. It is perfectly lawful of the employer to make no assumption of adjustments.


If you put in a grievance that does not stop the disciplinary process.


You were urged to attend the disciplinary meeting, and you refused to do so and resigned instead. You did not see out either this, nor the grievance process to the end. To make a claim of constructive unfair dismissal you must be able to show that you did so, or that an action of the employer was so appalling that you could not be required to. The latter is clearly not the case - you basically said that you were taking your bat and ball home because you did not appear to be getting your own way. They then gave you a chance to change your mind, which they did not need to do. You told them to shove it!


And besides which - you now have no continuous service so you don't qualify to make a claim. You need some 18 more months for that! There is no evidence of disability discrimination here, so no reason to think you would qualify on those grounds.


To be honest, judging by your version of the story alone, I think that they were sending very strong signals that it was unlikely you would be dismissed. They simply had to see through the process to fairly say that there were no grounds for the complaints against you. Which they had to do. Your resignation would therefore appear to have been ill-judged. And, unfortunately, far from in your best interests as they (a) probably won't ever want to employ you again and (b) your conduct in this matter, if mentioned in a reference, will have serious implications for future employment. You resigned whilst under disciplinary investigation - that is a VERY bad thing to have on a reference.

Guest101

Why are you posting here now and not when this all happened?!


I appreciate you're not the most active member, but still been here for 6 years.

kellyp1811

I didn't come here for abuse or aggression. I came for advice!

I understand what you are saying and thank you - but perhaps next time when 'giving advice/help' to somebody you wouldn't be so rude about it!

Guest101

kellyp1811 wrote: »

I didn't come here for abuse or aggression. I came for advice!

I understand what you are saying and thank you - but perhaps next time when 'giving advice/help' to somebody you wouldn't be so rude about it!

Now I know Sangie wasn't rude, because I've read the reply and then re-read it.


So must be me, apologies....

YouAsked

sangie595 wrote: »

To be honest, judging by your version of the story alone, I think that they were sending very strong signals that it was unlikely you would be dismissed. They simply had to see through the process to fairly say that there were no grounds for the complaints against you. Which they had to do. Your resignation would therefore appear to have been ill-judged. .

I couldn't agree more with this.

From the other side of the fence, a particularly serious allegation was made against someone - so serious it HAD to be investigated. The person would not co-operate with the investigation, saying it was a foregone conclusion, a stitch up etc and ultimately resigned. I wanted nothing more than to be able to say to them "actually we KNOW there is nothing in these allegations, but we must go through the process and in the end, that will validate you too" but I couldn't as I could not compromise myself or the process. It still rankles with me now as if they had engaged with the process, they would have essentially been given a clean bill of health.

sangie595

kellyp1811 wrote: »

I didn't come here for abuse or aggression. I came for advice!

I understand what you are saying and thank you - but perhaps next time when 'giving advice/help' to somebody you wouldn't be so rude about it!

So... that wasn't the answer you wanted?


You have just done exactly what you did to your employer. React with a tantrum because you aren't getting your own way.


If you'd please outline what answers you want - correct or not - then it will save us all the trouble of answering if we have something different to say.

steampowered

I think it is really unfortunate that you resigned. I think you should have waited for a decision to be made in the disciplinary process. The process could have found that the allegations against you were completely unfounded. Suspension with pay is not evidence of guilt.

The fact that the employer gave you a chance to retract your resignation is unusual and may demonstrate that they wanted to keep you. If the employer thought the allegations had merit they would have simply accepted your resignation.

It may be too late now, but perhaps there is still a chance of engaging with the disciplinary process (so at least the allegations can be formally dealt with rather than causing issues for your reference).

Maybe even still a chance you could get your job back if you ask for it?

As others have advised, I don't see any legal claim here. I am not sure which law or policy you think has been breached.

The fact that a letter arrived at 2pm asking for a response at 5pm, and the fact they didn't respond on the Monday when they said they would, is bad practice by the employer. However it is not illegal. I think that is more likely to be an administrative error than anything malicious.

Undervalued

kellyp1811 wrote: »

It is not about money (although nobody would turn that down im sure) its about the fact that based on company policies and UK law they have not followed what they should and i want them to be accountable for that. Nobody else should need to feel like i have done these last few weeks

I am not going to repeat the excellent advice given by Sangie and others. I appreciate it is not what you wanted to hear but that doesn't make it wrong!

I am sorry but the final paragraph (which I have copied above) further highlights your lack of understanding of the legal process.

It is about the money and nothing else. An employment tribunal is not there to punish the employer, even assuming they had done something wrong! If you had a valid case all a tribunal could do is award you some financial compensation. It can't fine the employer, make them change their practices, force them to re-employ you or even order them to provide a decent reference.

Sorry but you have no claim whatsoever.

Takeaway_Addict

kellyp1811 wrote: »

Hi Everybody,

Thank you to anybody that reads this and thank you to anybody that has any advice for me

I will try and keep it as short and succinct as possible.

Ok so I had an 'investigation meeting' on monday 3rd october, it was an allegation of gross misconduct that i had been discussing company pay information. (I am a PA so confidentiality is part of my everyday job!) Company has more than 200 employees (if that helps anybody)

So i had this meeting and i did get quite upset by it (in the meeting) because i had never so much as had a telling off for anything in my entire working life (16+ years) so how this came about i just had no idea, i then remembered the conversation and i gave my very brief view of events (having been given no time to consider any of this as it was literally sprung on me on the monday morning) and i was in more shock and upset than anything.

I then asked the manager who was conducting the investigation a) why was it her that had to do it (because she is impartial - fair enough)
b) what did my line manager (and director of the company) think about all this and she said he doesnt know?! So i thought huh how can you do this without telling him??

At the end of this - still very upset i said how can i go back upstairs and face him now, so she went upstairs for me. She came back about 20 mins later and said he is suspending you, i was in total disbelief i just had no idea what was happening!!

Also I have epilepsy, I know I come under the Disability Act/Equality Act - my fits are also brought on my stress, no consideration was given to me for this, not even so much as an are you ok.

Now i really got on with the manager who did the meeting (so she wasnt really that impartial) neither here nor there really, but she did say off the record - if i was her member of staff this is gross misconduct and would most likely lead to dismissal. She said obv she cant give advice but - stay employed so you get a few extra days pay and resign on the day of the disciplinary. I went home in floods of tears.

Tuesday 4th - mail arrived at 2pm, with the letter inviting me to a disciplinary policy on the 6th, but the letter asked for a response to the allegations by 5pm that day - hardly fair!
As i read the minutes of the girl doing the accusing - they were out and out lies, i was outraged - also the letter said i can refer to the company disciplinary policy on our intranet system but of course i was suspended therefore unable to access it.

In my response that day to all these lies - i did counter balance it with a whole tonne of stuff she had said, also said i was disappointed to have the DP to refer to. They then sent this to me.

The response i got from that said he assured me no decision had been made (i knew that he did not want to actually sack me) and he urged me to attend the meeting on the 6th, so that he can investigate my claims. Now having the DP i responded with 'based on our policies' this girl had committed 'gross misconduct' also.

I therefore raised i grievance - for unfair treatment at the time because its not fair to do one without the other. This was not acknowledged (and i know why - it is because they could not do witiut both of us at work, our jobs overlapped - if she was on holiday i took her work and vice versa she would take some of mine) and they would be screwed without both of us! I mentioned this in 2 pieces of correspondence - both of which totally ignored.

On the 6th, i resigned, i felt they had made my job untenable. Genuinely not one to do a sob story - but i felt like i had been victimised and singled out, bullied by this girl for what reason i do not know and my disability was given no acknowledgement whatsoever.

The DVLA have returned my licence and the last thing i want is to have it taken away again because of another fit - entirely possible with the stress and upset.

The response was thank you and we accept it, but giving you to the 19th to withdraw it!!! On 19th i wrote and said i would not be withdrawing it and you have given no support to me whatsoever (which i know they have to) and i can no longer trust the company.
Also again reiterating about the grievance.

Response was i will discuss fully with HR and give a response monday (24th) no response. So i emailed 27th asking if this had been passed to HR and was them i was waiting on a response from. No reply.

So basically i want to know if i have a case to take forward?

I was also made redundant by them in may and i was asked to return after a month - which i did because i was fortunate enough to love my job :'(

I just think i have been treated so badly, without any consideration for the epilepsy, the bullying/lies, being told by other manager this is a sackable offence and if i was her staff i would be. i just felt based on the fact that i had been suspended and given that advice i could not return to that office and have everyone staring at me. The girl who i considered my 'best friend' at work had stabbed me in the back so badly and my grievance was not taken seriously.

It is not about money (although nobody would turn that down im sure) its about the fact that based on company policies and UK law they have not followed what they should and i want them to be accountable for that. Nobody else should need to feel like i have done these last few weeks :'(

Sorry for the essay - any advice/help gratefully received.

Thanks

.....................................................................

motorguy

kellyp1811 wrote: »

I didn't come here for abuse or aggression. I came for advice!

I understand what you are saying and thank you - but perhaps next time when 'giving advice/help' to somebody you wouldn't be so rude about it!

As per what others have said, Sangies response was spot on and having re-read it, i dont see any abuse or aggression - just an objective view from someone very experienced in this area.