Apcoa PCN for Parking Across Bays

JD10

Hello all,

To summarise my situation, we parked in Heathrow Airport and were parked in the bay with the front of the car tyres parked on the white bay line. All other sides were well within the bay. We found a Parking Charge Notice on our windscreen with contravention "02. Parking Across Bays" given as reason. It states that £90 is payable within 28 days or £45 if paid within 21 days.

I sent Apcoa an appeal letter which I drafted using the MSE forum including photos as evidence with "The alleged contravention did not occur" as reason.

I have received a rejection letter from Apcoa with their photographic evidence and POPLA verification number. They have reiterated their £45 charge if paid within 14 days.

I am stumped now and unsure what to write in my appeal to POPLA. I have tried searching the forum for successful recent appeals for "parking across bays" but have not found anything.

Could you please advise me?

Thanks,

JD

Coupon-mad

Try reading the penultimate page of 'POPLA Decisions' where I've posted some template appeal points you can use. Show us what you gather together - you can use the templates verbatim, that's what they are there for.

You do not really need anything about 'bay lines' as you will win this on standard legal points and APCOA will probably cancel as long as you didn't say who was driving and cite 'no keeper liability'. I assume you have not been sent a 'Notice to Keeper' at all. That's covered by one of the template POPLA appeal points I wrote three weeks ago, as found towards the end of POPLA Decisions.

JD10

Thanks Coupon-mad, I'll have a look and gather together all points I can and post a draft here. There was no notice to keeper sent. It's probably worth noting that I'm appealing this on behalf of the keeper. At no point have I stated who the driver was in my original appeal to Apcoa.

Coupon-mad

You mean you are the keeper?

JD10

No, the keeper is a friend of mine.

Coupon-mad

So you need to do the POPLA appeal in his name: 'as him' not on behalf of him. I realise that the POPLA page gives you the question 'are you appealing on behalf of someone else' but I think that complicates matters so I've never gone for that option myself.

I always fill it in as the person, as if they were typing it, tick 'other' then attach the PDF full appeal.

JD10

OK, noted thanks. I originally sent the appeal letter to Apcoa 'as him'. They've replied to his name, so all good in this aspect.

I've put together 3 template points from your posts found on the POPLA Decisions thread and copy pasted it word for word.

1. The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who was liable for the charge

2. No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

3. A compliant Notice to Keeper was never served - no Keeper Liability can apply.

Question: Should I wait the 56 days before I can hit them with point #3? The PCN is dated 24/09/16 and they received my appeal on 3/10/16. Their reply is dated 4/10/16.

Coupon-mad

You definitely always need 'unclear signage' because the £90 is always in small print so don't let them off that one. It makes them have to produce pics of signs and maps and they are more likely to give up if you make life hard for them.

You could also have a first point that the occupants of the car state that the vehicle was not parked outside of a marked bay, merely with one wheel on the white line. No other vehicle was prevented from parking and this was not obstructive in any way, nor outside of a bay. There was no contravention and nothing in this instance that could match the high bar set in the 'complex' case in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.

In that case, it was found that charge certainly engaged the 'penalty rule' but (unusually) escaped being held to be unenforceable due to a significant 'legitimate interest' in preventing overstaying in bays where the retail park landowner wanted to have a high turnover of custom.

No such ''legitimate interest which extended beyond the recovery of any loss'' exists in punishing drivers for a wheel on a white line, causing no commercial problem or loss to the landowner. In fact, that very scenario was discussed at the Supreme Court and the Judges made it clear that a charge for overlapping a white line would not seem fair. The finding was that a contractual clause would be penal if it was a secondary obligation which imposed a detriment on the contract-breaker that was 'unconscionable' and out of all proportion to any legitimate interest. Clearly, to charge in this circumstance is an attempt to penalise an authorised driver using the car park as intended and not overstaying. The Supreme court Judges stated that the purpose of a charge cannot be to punish a consumer. A charge would require a commercial justification to save it from the penalty rule and in this case, there is no such overriding interest in charging more than damages (nothing).

Question: Should I wait the 56 days before I can hit them with point #3? The PCN is dated 24/09/16 and they received my appeal on 3/10/16. Their reply is dated 4/10/16.

Your POPLA code is valid for 28 days and a bit (a few days for service!) so aim for day 30 from the rejection letter, it's all you can stretch to safely. You appealed too early by our standards. The NEWBIES thread says wait for over 3 weeks for a reason! Never mind.

JD10

OK, so i've submitted my POPLA appeal and Apcoa have come back to me today with a very detailed reply. Could someone contact me via PM so I can show you the reply as I'm stumped right now..

POPLA has given me 7 days from today to reply/comment on the appeal.

JD10

Coupon-mad / Umkomaas, could you please help me? I sent the POPLA appeal with all of the template points found in the POPLA decisions thread. Apcoa have come back with appeal rejection on the following grounds:

APCOA can confirm that this appeal was rejected as:
a) This driver does not dispute that designated bays are clearly marked out.
b) This driver as parked in breach of the terms and conditions, as the vehicle was not parked
within the bay markings as instructed.
c) As per the images taken by the attendant, there was sufficient space behind the vehicle for it
to have been parked wholly within the bay as instructed.
d) Should the driver have been unable to park within the bay markings for any given reasons
(not given upon appeal), it is the responsibly of the driver to find a suitable alternative.
The driver could have parked in the adjacent bay in which he was parked across.
e) As per the images taken by the attendant, there was sufficient space behind the vehicle for it
to have been parked wholly within the bay as instructed.
An appeal is now made to POPLA
This appeal sates POFA and keeper liability; however the driver was already identified at the first
point of appeal where the notice was issued to the windscreen and the driver in receipt wrote to
APCOA stating “You issued me with a parking ticket”.
The driver received the notice and willing provided his details; thus a notice to Keeper not being
issued.
Please be advised that APCOA do not work, issue or seek payment under POFA. Heathrow Airport is
private land covered by Bye-laws.

I realise that my wording was not very good in my inital appeal to Apcoa but I have still never stated that I was the driver.

Could you please advise? If you PM me, I can send you a copy of their PDF reply so you can see the whole appeal.

Guys_Dad

Can you post the photograph alleging that you contravened?