We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide

Part time overtime impacted freelance earnings

I left my old job to go freelance. One of my clients was, in fact, my old job.

I then went back on a temp basis (didn't even sign a contract) two days a week PAYE to help out the dept until someone was recruited into one of the four open vacancies. I never signed a contract for this as it was a casual arrangement.

During a particularly busy week, I ended up spending one of my freelance days doing entirely office work from home. The duties are clearly split from my freelance work - there's no crossover.

I said the week prior, knowing it was going to be a very busy week coming up, that if office duties took up too much time I would have to charge some hours. Verbally this was agreed by a line manager.

Now my invoice is being questioned: the company expects people to work additional hours unpaid as required. I have invoiced for 7 hours office duties, as I lost an entire day of freelance income. I also had to push back deadlines for other clients and this company due to the super busy day.

I have my work emails open the three days a week I freelance, often on weekends as well, and respond to them as usual. This takes about six hours a week total, and I have never charged for this as I thought it was a reasonable unpaid overtime of duties. However, add that to the additional 7 hours for that one crazy week and I'm seriously losing out.

To clarify, I'm ONLY charging the extra 7 hours - not the usual 6 hours/week unpaid overtime for emails etc.

Where do I stand with this? If a contract existed (and I suppose it is implied as I have been temping for 14 weeks) how much unpaid overtime would be expected? I've been putting in more hours than I'm paid for, but if the time in the contract is non specific doesn't that mean they could technically have everyone on part time contracts working full time hours?!

I think they are being difficult because I gave a week's notice last week to leave the temp position AND drop them as a freelance client. It just isn't worth the hassle to work for them.

I want to know where I stand on this, as I can't seem to find any information out there except that 'part time workers cannot be treated unfairly to full time workers' and that 'part time workers could work overtime up to a full time worker without pay'. But that seems massively unfair. Surely overtime- especially unpaid - should be proportionate?

HELP!

Comments

  • agrinnall
    agrinnall Posts: 23,344 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    I don't understand why you are doing anything more than the agreed hours, it's not your problem if the company can't recruit to fill the vacancy. But having done more hours the lack of any formal documentation makes it very difficult for you to pursue your claim. If you want to work for this company I strongly recommend that you formalise the agreement rather than leaving it casual and open to (mis)interpretation.
  • sangie595
    sangie595 Posts: 6,092 Forumite
    You don't appear to have a contract in place to charge them for the extra hours - a verbal agreement can't be proven. Assuming the manager even had the authority to agree such a thing. I think you are on a sticky wicket to try to enforce payment of something that wasn't agreed. In such circumstances, tbh, you don't do overtime until you have a written agreement in place about payment, and you don't let it spill over into your freelance time. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. This may be something you will have to treat as a learning point.

    You could try a letter before action, but whether it is actually worth a court claim, given the circumstances and risk, is something you will have to decide.
  • BigAnnieG
    BigAnnieG Posts: 28 Forumite
    Well, the contract was drawn up and never sent, plus it was agreed that it would be two days a week over email so there is that much in writing. I think through the rules of implied contracts (i.e., I started work before 9am and finished after 5pm, attended on the days I was supposed to, had the same workplace rights/access as employees, was there for 14 weeks etc) means something should stand.
    I know I shouldn't have done the extra time, but after being an employee there for over a year and it becoming standard practice, I didn't think anything of checking my emails on my days off as that was what everyone does. I had an agreement from the manager at the time (in writing, if 'cool' counts as an agreement of terms...) of the extra hours, but he has since left, and that's where it's all got a bit sticky!
    I knew if I DIDN'T do the overtime I'd have been fired immediately for not attending to 'business critical' tasks that were time sensitive.
    It's a definite learning curve, you're right - and I think the problem was spilling office duties into freelance time, even though it was THEIR assigned freelance day (so they were then behind on projects, which I got it in the neck for...even though I told them I had to push back BECAUSE of these business critical things... *eye roll* ).
    They are the sort of company that believe a department that used to have five people can do more work with one and a half people even when the company has doubled in size since...so this behaviour doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
  • BigAnnieG
    BigAnnieG Posts: 28 Forumite
    agrinnall wrote: »
    If you want to work for this company I strongly recommend that you formalise the agreement rather than leaving it casual and open to (mis)interpretation.

    I think the reason they're being difficult is because I DON'T want to work for them :rotfl: I handed my notice in and suddenly my invoice was questioned.
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper I've helped Parliament
    Should have got a zero hours for the extra PAYE.
    They ask you to work and pay you.
    Too busy earning more free lance turn work down.

    Tighten up your freelance process you should invoice against purchase orders.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 354.8K Banking & Borrowing
  • 254.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 455.6K Spending & Discounts
  • 247.6K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 604.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 178.6K Life & Family
  • 262.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.7K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.