Letter before Claim - Gladstones Solicitors

Wanger

I have today received a Letter before claim from Gladstones Solicitors working on behalf of ES Parking Enforcement Limited.


The letter relates to a parking charge notice received in relation to my car which was parked outside a marked bay in a retail park car park. They have photographic evidence. I was not the driver at the time.


The date of the offence was the 16/07/2016. I received the notice to keeper to my home address on the 04/08/2016. The notice was dated the 29/07/2016. I appealed the notice on the fact that it failed to meet the obligations of schedule 4 of the POFA act, namely that it was posted on the 29/07/2016, the expected date of delivery being 2 working days after posting therefore making the expected date of delivery the Tuesday 2nd August 2016 which make the total number of days 17 days after the initial date.


This appeal was rejected. I chose not to appeal to the IAS. I then received a further letter from ES parking asking for payment again. I ignored this letter.


I have today received the Letter before Claim from Gladstones.


I need to reply within 14 days, can anyone advise do I have a valid legal argument, how do I word the letter and what information the letter to Gladstones needs to contain.


Thanks in advance

System

Search for Gladstones Part 18

Coupon-mad

Yep search for Gladstones on here and on pepipoo forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

... and you will see lots of examples of a response, loads every day about relying to LBA/LBC letters (Gladstones and BW Legal being the main perpetrators at the mo). Having read maybe 12 good examples, come back with your intended reply and expect to have to defend this up to (or at, if Gladstones dare) a hearing.

I received the notice to keeper to my home address on the 04/08/2016. The notice was dated the 29/07/2016. I appealed the notice on the fact that it failed to meet the obligations of schedule 4 of the POFA act, namely that it was posted on the 29/07/2016, the expected date of delivery being 2 working days after posting therefore making the expected date of delivery the Tuesday 2nd August 2016 which make the total number of days 17 days after the initial date.

Good - you are right and as you were not the driver you cannot under ANY applicable law, be held liable.

Might be a good idea right now, to tell Gladstones (in writing, keep proof with a free PO 'certificate of posting' - receipt - but do not send it Recorded or Special Delivery) that you were not driving. Tell them that you will sign a witness statement confirming that as a true fact and are aware there is no obligation to name the driver, nor can the old irrelevant chestnut 'Elliot v Loake' apply. So you wish to know on what basis their client is trying to hold you liable.

Personally, I would not mention the dates and see if you can get G's to drop themselves in the sticky stuff, if they respond about the POFA.

You would then have grounds to report them to the DVLA and the SRA for telling a keeper who they know was not driving, that the POFA applies when the dates do not stack up for the PPC, whichever twist they try to put on them.

The_Deep

They are currently being investigated by the SRA for a large number of complaints. Why not make it one more.


http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/report-solicitor.page

Wanger

Thanks for that people, I've done some reading and drafted,

Dear sir/madam

I have received your letter dated 29/09/16. I am indeed the registered keeper of the vehicle but I was not the driver at the time.

You appear to be unaware that ES parking enforcement ltd have not met the requirements of the POFA 2012 schedule 4 within the 'notice' they sent to me, which is why there was no lawful reason for me to respond. Within the POFA, they cannot hold me liable for a private parking charge as registered keeper.

Your client has no cause of action. The date of the charge was the 16/07/16. The notice to keeper I received was dated by ES parking enforcement ltd the 29/07/16. Under the provisions of the POFA 2012 schedule 4, the notice to the keeper must be delivered not later than 14 days after the date the vehicle was parked. A notice sent by post under the act, is presumed to have been delivered on the second working day after which it was posted. For the purpose of the act working days mean any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a bank holiday. The notice to keeper was in fact not received until the 4/8/16, however as detailed in the provisions of the POFA as set out above, the presumed date of delivery would of been the 2nd August 2016, this date means that the requirement of the POFA 2012 schedule 4 have not been met as this date is 17 days after the date that the vehicle was parked. Therefore I cannot be held liable for the parking charge as the registered keeper.

This information was provided to your client to your client on the 5/8/16, however I did not receive a satisfactory response who failed to acknowledge the reasons provided for me not responding.

The driver has not been identified and your client has failed to meet the requirements of the protection of freedoms act to pursue me as keeper so it seems to me, they have no cause of action in any case.

I look forward to your response shortly


This is my draft letter, is it too much or does it need condensing.

Any advice would be great.

Coupon-mad

As I said above:

Personally, I would not mention the dates and see if you can get G's to drop themselves in the sticky stuff, if they respond about the POFA.

You would then have grounds to report them to the DVLA and the SRA for telling a keeper who they know was not driving, that the POFA applies when the dates do not stack up for the PPC, whichever twist they try to put on them.

Wanger

Thanks


I have amended the letter as below:




I have received your letter dated 29/09/16 and I am indeed the registered keeper of this vehicle, however I was not the driver.




You appear to be unaware that ES Parking Enforcement Limited have not met the requirements of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 within the 'Notice' they sent to me, which is why there was no lawful reason for me to need to respond. Without the POFA, they cannot hold me liable for a private parking charge, as registered keeper.




Your client has no cause of action. Under the provisions of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4, the notice to keeper must be delivered not later than 14 days after the date that the vehicle was parked. A notice sent by post under the act, is presumed to have been delivered on the second working day after which it was posted. For the purpose of the act working days mean any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday. The requirements of the POFA 2012 Schedule 4 have not been met by ES Parking Enforcement Ltd, therefore I cannot be held liable for the parking charge as the registered keeper.


This information was provided to your client on the 05/08/2016, however I did not receive a satisfactory response, who failed to acknowledge the reasons I had provided for not responding.


I presume reading your letter before claim; you have not had sight of the documents provided to me by ES Parking Enforcement Ltd, as you would be aware that the notice to keeper was not delivered within the relevant timeframe.


The driver has not been identified and I am prepared to sign a witness statement confirming this as a true fact. Your client has failed to meet the requirements of The Protection of Freedoms Act to pursue me as keeper so it seems to me; they have no cause of action in any case.


I look forward to your response shortly.




Is this suitable and adequate, Thanks

rdr

Coupon-mad wrote: »

G

Might be a good idea right now, to tell Gladstones (in writing, keep proof with a free PO 'certificate of posting' - receipt - but do not send it Recorded or Special Delivery) that you were not driving. Tell them that you will sign a witness statement confirming that as a true fact and are aware there is no obligation to name the driver, nor can the old irrelevant chestnut 'Elliot v Loake' apply. So you wish to know on what basis their client is trying to hold you liable.

You left out this bit as well

Wanger

In relation to this, I have now received a further letter from Gladstones


"Under schedule 4(4)(1) of the protection of freedoms act 2012 an operator can pursue the registered keeper of the vehicle when the driver has failed to pay their PCN.


You must provide evidence that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time the PCN was issued"


This letter seems very vague and they haven't addressed that fact that I have detailed above that they did not send the notice to keeper within the date required


Any advice on next course of action would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

Wanger

Hi,

After previously receiving a letter before claim from Gladstones and sending a reply letter (see my previous thread) I have one received the below letter

In relation to this, I have now received a further letter from Gladstones


"Under schedule 4(4)(1) of the protection of freedoms act 2012 an operator can pursue the registered keeper of the vehicle when the driver has failed to pay their PCN.


You must provide evidence that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time the PCN was issued"


This letter seems very vague and they haven't addressed that fact that I have detailed above that they did not send the notice to keeper within the date required


Any advice on next course of action would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

hoohoo

I disagree. Gladstones (strangely for them) seem to have accepted the NTK was out of date.

If you were the driver this would not matter. They are therefore asking for proof you were not the driver, and presumably, on receipt of that proof, will drop the matter.

What evidence can you provide? Were you elsewhere at the time? Does their photograph allow you to identify that the driver was not you? In the worst case, you could provide witness statements from yourself and any passengers that you were not the driver.