Why are house prices so expensive in the south east

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you are totally against people having family sized homes so they can have a family
anyway,

You're putting a lot of words into my mouth.

most of the price of housing isn't 'real' as the price only exists once sold so there is no actual loss except for people who have bought recently

Well, that any anyone who still has a mortgage or wants to leverage the equity. Lots of businesses rely on property equity for loan security, for instance.

Anyway, the problem here isn't that there are too many foreigners stealing all our housing, it's that we're just not building enough suitable houses.

absolutley agree with your visions of economies of scale.

-Families to live in multi-occupied houses - can share kitchens and -bathrooms and so much more efficient
-single people in dormatories
-couples in shared flats
-could rip out seats in trains/buses to become more 'efficient'

OK meets your definition of a higher standard of living but I doubt many people would agree with you.

I said none of that. Single people sharing flats, with a room each, will have a better standard of living, on average, like for like, than someone who is on their own. Nothing about that is suggesting dormitories.

so you're now saying that cafe / restaurant employees are 'highly skilled?'
Do you not appreciate the absurdity of your own examples?

Please pay attention, the evidence you wanted was to back up this:

Plenty of immigrants have high skilled jobs and run successful businesses.

Or are you going to claim that cafe/restaurants aren't businesses and aren't owned by anyone?

Incidentally, in my highly skilled (well into higher rate tax) job, about 30% of the workforce are foreign born.

So you think a stable population leads to economic collapse :

Whilst that population is aging, then yes, it can only end in collapse.
But we're not talking about a stable population here, we're looking at a declining and aging population without immigration, a veritable time bomb.

silverwhistle

CLAPTON wrote: »

they don't have the magic population of 65 Million you consider essential for existance.

Just one example, but why do you constantly misrepresent other peoples' arguments?

It's pointless posting on any thread where you get involved.

mayonnaise

Herzlos wrote: »

You're putting a lot of words into my mouth.

Standard modus operandi for clappers.
It usually starts with "So you" and carries on with utterly inane drivel.

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you are totally against people having family sized homes

CLAPTON wrote: »

so you're now saying that cafe / restaurant employees are 'highly skilled?'

CLAPTON wrote: »

So you think a stable population leads to economic collapse

I recommend you not to waste too much time on the sad little twerp.

CLAPTON

Herzlos wrote: »

You're putting a lot of words into my mouth.

then use you own words to say whether it is better to have high houses prices rather that low or at least stable ones.

in your own words do say whether the clear trend for first property purphase to become older and older is a 'good ' thing or something to be regretted'

do you really welcome house price inflation that locks out many of the young from owning their own property, can be justified so the lucky older owners can get large loans for business or whatever?
Is that really a good reason to welcome immigrants because they push up the price of houses for the lucky older people?

Anyway, the problem here isn't that there are too many foreigners stealing all our housing, it's that we're just not building enough suitable houses.

no problem with freezing all immigration until we have build sufficient houses for our current level of population

Incidentally, in my highly skilled (well into higher rate tax) job, about 30% of the workforce are foreign born.

I was at a business today where none of the serior highly skilled people were immigrants.

Whilst that population is aging, then yes, it can only end in collapse.
But we're not talking about a stable population here, we're looking at a declining and aging population without immigration, a veritable time bomb.

the uk population would keep growing without immigration.

CLAPTON

silverwhistle wrote: »

Just one example, but why do you constantly misrepresent other peoples' arguments?

It's pointless posting on any thread where you get involved.

I point out the absurdity of people's statements :
in your case that's difficult as your post says nothing of substance.

cells

CLAPTON wrote: »

then use you own words to say whether it is better to have high houses prices rather that low or at least stable ones.

house prices are related to a lot of other things so its not as easy as that. At one end of the spectrum its quite easily to argue that houses should be very cheap maybe even free. But today what we have is that house prices respond to the local economy around them in which case high house prices mean a good strong local economy and yes in that case high house prices is a good thing as it means a strong economy

in your own words do say whether the clear trend for first property purphase to become older and older is a 'good ' thing or something to be regretted'

again you are picking on some silly single variable idea that does not work in the real world. Ideally everyone could easily buy a very cheap very nice home by the age of 20. However the reality is that lots of people simply dont want to buy early anymore. This is mostly to do with getting married later or not at all. The proof to this is that cheap parts of the country are seeing the same trends its not only the expensive parts which shows its not primarily price driven

do you really welcome house price inflation that locks out many of the young from owning their own property, can be justified so the lucky older owners can get large loans for business or whatever?
Is that really a good reason to welcome immigrants because they push up the price of houses for the lucky older people?

yes it is a good thing that house prices go up on the back of a strong economy, the alternative is stoke on trent or middlesborough

Also you have not really commented on the inheritance issue, its not new and its a huge part of the market and the economy.

no problem with freezing all immigration until we have build sufficient houses for our current level of population

We have sufficient homes in the UK. The only place that is short, or rather there is too much demand, is inner London. Inner London should be knocked down and built at 3x the density. However dont think that will be cheap. Your utopia of no migrants leading to a cheap London wont happen even if it was to happen you would need to accept it would take 50 years and even then the low paid wont be able to buy in London probably not even the medium paid as London is probably more than anywhere else in the UK driven by inheritance/gifts now and in the future.

Whats more there has been a 'structural change' in what many people want. While in the past people would leave London for a home in the countryside they are now staying or even returning.

the uk population would keep growing without immigration.

are you sure of this. if the uk closes its borders to migrants there is no guarantee the rest of the EU or the world will do likewise. While you might get immigrants coming to the uk down you cant force the natives or existing EU migrants to stay.

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

house prices are related to a lot of other things so its not as easy as that. At one end of the spectrum its quite easily to argue that houses should be very cheap maybe even free. But today what we have is that house prices respond to the local economy around them in which case high house prices mean a good strong local economy and yes in that case high house prices is a good thing as it means a strong economy

As an pub 'argument ' it is up to your usual standard: as something that stands up (or even you actually believe ) then it's nonsense.
There is nothing contradictory between a strong economy and people in their thirties being able to live in a family sized house.

3-4 million immigrants in London obviously have a massive effect on demand and on price and family sized housing availability

again you are picking on some silly single variable idea that does not work in the real world. Ideally everyone could easily buy a very cheap very nice home by the age of 20. However the reality is that lots of people simply dont want to buy early anymore. This is mostly to do with getting married later or not at all. The proof to this is that cheap parts of the country are seeing the same trends its not only the expensive parts which shows its not primarily price driven

I'm not talking about buying at 20.
I talking about decently paid people in London and the SE in their 30s wanting to start a family. 20-30 years ago before the massive influx of immigrants, they would have been able to buy a reasonable family house in London.

Now I'm not saying that 3-4 million immigrations in London, aren't the sole reason : we certainly had/have the option of increasing incomce tax rates by 10 - 20 p in the pound and knock down most of London to provide enough homes for immigrants.

yes it is a good thing that house prices go up on the back of a strong economy, the alternative is stoke on trent or middlesborough

20-30 years ago reasonably paid people in their 30s, could live in a family sized house in London and it had no similarity to Trent.

Also you have not really commented on the inheritance issue, its not new and its a huge part of the market and the economy.

I see little relevance to some-one in their 30s being able to live in a family sized house and starting a family with a generous inheritance in their 60 or 70s.

We have sufficient homes in the UK. The only place that is short, or rather there is too much demand, is inner London. Inner London should be knocked down and built at 3x the density. However dont think that will be cheap. Your utopia of no migrants leading to a cheap London wont happen even if it was to happen you would need to accept it would take 50 years and even then the low paid wont be able to buy in London probably not even the medium paid as London is probably more than anywhere else in the UK driven by inheritance/gifts now and in the future.

supply and demand determine price.

If inheitance drives London prices then we would expect a high level of owner occupation, albiet by people who inherited.

Whats more there has been a 'structural change' in what many people want. While in the past people would leave London for a home in the countryside they are now staying or even returning.

This is complete nonsense : native born are leaving London as evidenced by 3-4 million immigrants.

are you sure of this. if the uk closes its borders to migrants there is no guarantee the rest of the EU or the world will do likewise. While you might get immigrants coming to the uk down you cant force the natives or existing EU migrants to stay.

Yes, I am sure.
Of course there is no guarantee of the future.

MARTYM8`

Its where the politicians and the bankers live and the 'important' people.

George Osborne made millions as a result of his time as Chancellor - not in salary but in the appreciation of the value of his property portfolio due in no small part to the policies he introduced.

We worry about expenses claims for duck ponds - but the real money is being made elsewhere.

CLAPTON

MARTYM8` wrote: »

Its where the politicians and the bankers live and the 'important' people.

George Osborne made millions as a result of his time as Chancellor - not in salary but in the appreciation of the value of his property portfolio due in no small part to the policies he introduced.

We worry about expenses claims for duck ponds - but the real money is being made elsewhere.

its unfair to blame Osborne only : all the political parties have been in favour of unlimited immigration.

Herzlos

CLAPTON wrote: »

then use you own words to say whether it is better to have high houses prices rather that low or at least stable ones.

Steady or gradually declining (Vs inflation) prices would be the best option presented, though to be fair we just need a massive introduction of starter homes - 1 or 2 bedroom small places that people can actually afford, as well as a massive increase in infrastructure - the reason demand in London is so high is for work, so if you can improve links to the city you can expand the area in demand and ease the pressure, and therefore prices. By that I mean boost link speeds and reduce costs.

The issues we have in the UK are 2-fold; the new housing stock is all 2+ bedroom luxury apartments or 4+ bedroom luxury houses, with a lot of the smaller places being extended, and our public transport infrastructure is an expensive, barely functional joke.

in your own words do say whether the clear trend for first property purphase to become older and older is a 'good ' thing or something to be regretted'

It's not a good thing, but it needs to be addressed gradually over many years, rather than by a market crash.

do you really welcome house price inflation that locks out many of the young from owning their own property, can be justified so the lucky older owners can get large loans for business or whatever?

No I don't welcome HPI.

Is that really a good reason to welcome immigrants because they push up the price of houses for the lucky older people?

The reason I welcome immigration is that they'll pay for your pension so I don't have to. House prices remaining high is a function of poor planning and not purely of demand. We could easily keep up with housing requirements and keeping prices down, but since about half of MP's are landowners relying on high prices, it'll never happen.

no problem with freezing all immigration until we have build sufficient houses for our current level of population

We have sufficient houses.

I was at a business today where none of the serior highly skilled people were immigrants.

That you know of. Not all immigrants are brown or speak Polish.
Anyway, what's your point? You asked for proof that immigrants have skilled jobs or businesses, and I provide some. As an aside, I can't remember the last doctor I've seen in a hospital that wasn't foreign. My local GP surgery is full of locals, but the last...6 or 7 hospital doctors I've used have been Asian.

the uk population would keep growing without immigration.

Except that it won't, because we're not having enough babies.