GMP – Have I Been Short-Changed?

agarnett

wary wrote: »

Did you manage to get it resolved? If so, how? Thanks

No. I also cannot sleep some nights because of pension worries. The whole business is inhabited by crooks and some of the biggest companies are involved.

wary

It seems that in the first instance, I need confirmation from HMRC as to my contracting out record, and the GMP against each scheme that their records currently show. However, I can only find links or contact details that are for the usage of schemes rather than individuals, and although it seems that HMRC will provide individuals with this info in Dec 2018, I really need this info somewhat sooner.

Anyone know how I can verify with HMRC ... please?

Thanks

xylophone

In the first instance, telephone ?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/national-insurance-contributions-and-benefits/

"....National Insurance Helpline for employees on 0300 200 3500...."

Have you tried telephoning the S32 provider to ask what records they have of pre 88 GMP/post 88 GMP and excess at the time your pension was transferred into the policy?

Presumably they must keep such records because of the need to pay the revalued GMP at GMP age and to be able to split out the pre 88 GMP/post 88 GMP and excess in terms of how increases are paid?

See http://www.pruadviser.co.uk/content/nav/about/26674/pghome/49880/53732/53816/53822/53825/

wary

Thanks once again for the invaluable help xylophone.

xylophone wrote: »

In the first instance, telephone ?

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/national-insurance-contributions-and-benefits/

"....National Insurance Helpline for employees on 0300 200 3500...."

Not a resounding success so far. After taking me through various speech recognition questions for 4 minutes, it then told me it was too busy to take my call & hung up! Will try again at a less busy time.

xylophone wrote: »

Have you tried telephoning the S32 provider to ask what records they have of pre 88 GMP/post 88 GMP and excess at the time your pension was transferred into the policy?
Presumably they must keep such records because of the need to pay the revalued GMP at GMP age and to be able to split out the pre 88 GMP/post 88 GMP and excess in terms of how increases are paid?
See http://www.pruadviser.co.uk/content/nav/about/26674/pghome/49880/53732/53816/53822/53825/

The link is post-1997 whereas my transfer pre-dates this, so presumably not applicable to me.
I've seen the GMP weekly figures that were on the application form, which seem roughly correct and they used these to derive the original SPA yearly GMP amount. However, a few months later, HMRC notified them of a figure which clearly excluded the transfer from Scheme A to Scheme B and they just went with this. So they have two sets of figures, and it's a shame they didn't question the discrepancy at the time as it probably could have been resolved fairly easily back then.
I'm assuming they'll still go with the HMRC figure unless HMRC tell them otherwise, which is why I'm keen to verify what they have on record before I approach the S32 providers.

xylophone

The link is post-1997 whereas my transfer pre-dates this,

The link explains post 97 and pre 97 as these relate to S32.


"COSR members earned a Guaranteed Minimum Pension (GMP) for contracted-out membership before 6 April 1997. This GMP is broadly equivalent to the State pension given up through contracting-out of SERPS. "

The revaluation rate of any GMP transferred to S32 must be either fixed rate or limited rate so that the maximum liability in respect of GMP can be identified. For this reason full revaluation in line with Section 148 Orders revaluation will not be accepted.

The amount of any GMP, before addition of the revaluation (i.e. the Basic GMP) as confirmed by the previous scheme or plan will be shown on the Transfer Certificate.

Where a transfer value to S32 includes the value of a GMP, we guarantee that the fund earned in respect of the pre 6 April 1997 portion of the Transfer Value will be sufficient to meet the corresponding GMP liabilities at and after State Pension Age or on the planholder's earlier death.


GMP in respect of service from 6 April 1988 must increase each year during payment by the lower of 3% and the increase in RPI for that year.'

(For RPI read CPI).


All your pension rights relate to pre 1997 accrual. There must be a transfer certificate held by your S32 provider?

Presumably your S32 provider can access help from HMRC?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/countdown-bulletin-16-april-2016/countdown-bulletin-16-13-april-2016

It might be better to contact the provider to discuss your concerns.

wary

Thanks again Xylophone. Agree that the next step should be to obtain the transfer certificate.

Also, the link you sent has a Contracted-out enquiries phone number (0300 200 3507) that appears to be for employee usage - hallelujah!

neilvw

Do let us know how you get on.

wary

wary wrote: »

Thanks again Xylophone. Agree that the next step should be to obtain the transfer certificate.

They reckon that because it was a bulk transfer then they received no transfer certificate. Not sure what constitutes a "bulk transfer" and whether this is the norm for such a transfer, but I believe it would have been a very small percentage (likely just a handful) of the circa 130 staff who were transferred, the vast majority going into the new company's DB scheme.

wary wrote: »

Also, the link you sent has a Contracted-out enquiries phone number (0300 200 3507) that appears to be for employee usage - hallelujah!

Very naive of me! It is just an old version of the 0300 200 3500 number which puts you through 4 minutes of speech recognition before telling you they're too busy and hangs up. I'll persevere though ...!

xylophone

They reckon that because it was a bulk transfer then they received no transfer certificate

But surely the Trustees had to supply the insurance company with details of the benefits of each member?

See http://www.pruadviser.co.uk/content/nav/about/26674/pghome/49880/53732/53759/53768/53795/

wary

An update on this …

… Employer-A DB Scheme had been transferred into Employer-B DB scheme, which in turn was transferred into a S32 in 1994. However, the S32 was only crediting me with the GMP whilst actually in Scheme B, as per the figures supplied by HMRC.

I eventually managed to get through to HMRC who confirmed that their records did not reflect the first transfer, and so that part of the GMP still rested with Scheme A.

It was a challenge given the length of time, especially as both schemes have long since closed down. However, I was able to collate enough documentary evidence to prove that the transfer did happen, and both HMRC & the S32 provider have updated their records accordingly.

So a success!!! … and thanks again to agarnett & especially xylophone for your earlier support. Just goes to show that despite the passage of time, sometimes these things are worth raking over otherwise I would never have spotted the discrepancy. (It may have sorted itself eventually anyway although I'm not convinced.)

I started out with a view to progressing a mis-selling claim … which I’m still hoping to pursue despite some challenges. Please can someone tell me how I stand if the selling adviser company has either closed down, or if the company is technically still open (to perform "basic activities") but they’ve effectively folded in that they've long since ceased to provide any kind of FA service?

Thanks