Can anyone help with a legal question?

sortofwinning

Hi, I have seen two employment law solicitors recently regarding the workplace bullying I’m experiencing which is being covered up by the management. I had to go to solicitor no 2 to get a second opinion, because sol no 1 told me that if I wrote a grievance letter, there would be no way to stop a junior manager in my workplace finding out all the details about my mental health problems. She would then tell everyone in my workplace involved in the bullying about all the details (I know she’s already told them about the name of my mental health problem because she and one of the main bullies made a joke about it in front of me).
Sol no 2 found a way around this ie I could put write a grievance letter and my employers could not ask for an occupational health report. I asked sol no 2 to write the grievance letter on my behalf, as I wanted to show my employers I wasn’t messing around, and she agreed to do so, but I saw sol no 2 on 15th Sept and I still don’t have the letter.
I have an interview this coming Wednesday and I stand a reasonable chance of getting the job, but I need the grievance letter asap because sol no 1 told me that my employers were entitled to give me a bad reference if they wanted e.g. they could truthfully write that I did not get along with my colleagues. I need the letter quickly, as I believe that it will scare my employers into not giving me a bad reference (any bad reference would be their fault anyway as they know about the bullying and won’t do anything about it). I contacted my solicitor on Friday and asked if someone could tell me when the letter is coming, but all they said was they would ring me back.
I have found the solicitor to be very good so far, but I really need this letter. Is there anyone who ever had a solicitor write a grievance letter and could they tell me how long it takes?
Thanks in advance.

Undervalued

sortofwinning wrote: »

Hi, I have seen two employment law solicitors recently regarding the workplace bullying I’m experiencing which is being covered up by the management. I had to go to solicitor no 2 to get a second opinion, because sol no 1 told me that if I wrote a grievance letter, there would be no way to stop a junior manager in my workplace finding out all the details about my mental health problems. She would then tell everyone in my workplace involved in the bullying about all the details (I know she’s already told them about the name of my mental health problem because she and one of the main bullies made a joke about it in front of me).
Sol no 2 found a way around this ie I could put write a grievance letter and my employers could not ask for an occupational health report. I asked sol no 2 to write the grievance letter on my behalf, as I wanted to show my employers I wasn’t messing around, and she agreed to do so, but I saw sol no 2 on 15th Sept and I still don’t have the letter.
I have an interview this coming Wednesday and I stand a reasonable chance of getting the job, but I need the grievance letter asap because sol no 1 told me that my employers were entitled to give me a bad reference if they wanted e.g. they could truthfully write that I did not get along with my colleagues. I need the letter quickly, as I believe that it will scare my employers into not giving me a bad reference (any bad reference would be their fault anyway as they know about the bullying and won’t do anything about it). I contacted my solicitor on Friday and asked if someone could tell me when the letter is coming, but all they said was they would ring me back.
I have found the solicitor to be very good so far, but I really need this letter. Is there anyone who ever had a solicitor write a grievance letter and could they tell me how long it takes?
Thanks in advance.

Ultimately only they can answer that question!

On a more general point be very careful you don't run yourself up a large bill and achieve little or nothing. Very easy to do under these circumstances.

Your employer does not have to communicate or engage with your solicitor at all if they choose not to do so. At a formal grievance meeting you cannot be represented by your solicitor (unless your employer chooses to allow it which is unlikely). Only a trades union rep or work colleague can accompany you.

Yes obviously you can pay for and take advice from who you please and that can sometimes be useful. But be very clear what you are hoping to achieve and whether that is realistic.

As you mentioned in one of your posts, you have been warned about the risk of a "bad" reference. Going down this route could make that more likely. Yes, it may "scare them into not giving you a bad reference" but it may not. Do you have the resources that would be needed to pursue a claim if that were to happen?

sangie595

Undervalued wrote: »

Ultimately only they can answer that question!

On a more general point be very careful you don't run yourself up a large bill and achieve little or nothing. Very easy to do under these circumstances.

Your employer does not have to communicate or engage with your solicitor at all if they choose not to do so. At a formal grievance meeting you cannot be represented by your solicitor (unless your employer chooses to allow it which is unlikely). Only a trades union rep or work colleague can accompany you.

Yes obviously you can pay for and take advice from who you please and that can sometimes be useful. But be very clear what you are hoping to achieve and whether that is realistic.

As you mentioned in one of your posts, you have been warned about the risk of a "bad" reference. Going down this route makes that almost inevitable.

I agree with every word of this. I would also point out that the letter may have the opposite effect. A grievance letter may, in fact, result in a "bad" reference, and if it comes from a solicitor, doubly so. The minute that things go formal, you can expect the trenches to be dug. A solicitor just makes them deeper. To say nothing of the fact that your involving a solicitor gives the employer an actual advantage at times! There is only so much law you can afford! String things out and you start running out of money before you have even begun.

I'd be cautious about your second advice too! An employer can always ask for an occupational health report. There is no way "around" that. They can ask for the moon at the same time. It doesn't mean that you have to agree, because nobody has to agree to such a request. But it could be exceptionally damaging if you refuse.

steampowered

I agree with the other posters. Trying to scare your employer into giving you a good reference is a high risk strategy that can easily backfire.

A solicitor could write a short grievance letter the same day if they need to, its only a short letter. Make sure you have informed your solicitor of any deadlines.

Undervalued

steampowered wrote: »

I agree with the other posters. Trying to scare your employer into giving you a good reference is a high risk strategy that can easily backfire.

Another possible outcome is that the employer then refuses to provide a reference at all. Except for a few regulated professions they cannot be forced into providing a reference. However a refusal is generally interpreted as having nothing good to say about the employee so can be as big a problem as a "bad" reference. Plus, if they did that, there would be nothing whatever you could do about it.

missbiggles1

As was pointed out in one of your earlier threads, your employer is unlikely to give you a bad reference if they want to get rid of you.

FBaby

Why would you pay someone to write a grievance letter? You can find advice on the best to go about it online and really, it is nothing more than putting down your issues, and -the important part and the one that is often forgotten- what actions you would like your employer to take and outcome you are hoping for.

I am guessing your reason to write it is purely procedural since you are leaving, as it is a step that is usually expected before considering a law suit?

micky2phones

sortofwinning wrote: »

Hi, I have seen two employment law solicitors recently regarding the workplace bullying I’m experiencing which is being covered up by the management. I had to go to solicitor no 2 to get a second opinion, because sol no 1 told me that if I wrote a grievance letter, there would be no way to stop a junior manager in my workplace finding out all the details about my mental health problems. She would then tell everyone in my workplace involved in the bullying about all the details (I know she’s already told them about the name of my mental health problem because she and one of the main bullies made a joke about it in front of me).
Sol no 2 found a way around this ie I could put write a grievance letter and my employers could not ask for an occupational health report. I asked sol no 2 to write the grievance letter on my behalf, as I wanted to show my employers I wasn’t messing around, and she agreed to do so, but I saw sol no 2 on 15th Sept and I still don’t have the letter.
I have an interview this coming Wednesday and I stand a reasonable chance of getting the job, but I need the grievance letter asap because sol no 1 told me that my employers were entitled to give me a bad reference if they wanted e.g. they could truthfully write that I did not get along with my colleagues. I need the letter quickly, as I believe that it will scare my employers into not giving me a bad reference (any bad reference would be their fault anyway as they know about the bullying and won’t do anything about it). I contacted my solicitor on Friday and asked if someone could tell me when the letter is coming, but all they said was they would ring me back.
I have found the solicitor to be very good so far, but I really need this letter. Is there anyone who ever had a solicitor write a grievance letter and could they tell me how long it takes?
Thanks in advance.

Hi, have you spoke with/to ACAS ? They helped me

bugslet

sangie595 wrote: »

I agree with every word of this. I would also point out that the letter may have the opposite effect. A grievance letter may, in fact, result in a "bad" reference, and if it comes from a solicitor, doubly so. The minute that things go formal, you can expect the trenches to be dug. A solicitor just makes them deeper. To say nothing of the fact that your involving a solicitor gives the employer an actual advantage at times! There is only so much law you can afford! String things out and you start running out of money before you have even begun.

.

I'm one of the most relaxed employers going, but if I receive a letter from solicitor, then as sangie says, the trench just got dug a lot deeper.

There are any number of ways of giving a bad reference, easiest of which is to do as miss biggles says, and not give one at all, beyond they worked here between these dates. Or give a bad reference, as long as it can be backed up.

Malthusian

bugslet wrote: »

There are any number of ways of giving a bad reference, easiest of which is to do as miss biggles says, and not give one at all, beyond they worked here between these dates.

My understanding is that that would be a perfectly neutral reference, not a bad one. And that many companies / HR departments will not give any other kind of reference to minimise risk of legal issues.

If I was in a position of having to give references that is what I'd expect my second reference to say (as I'm sure no-one else at the company remembers me).

*edit* By contrast, I expect refusing to provide any reference at all (even "X worked here between Y and Z dates") would be seen as a bad sign.

Undervalued

Malthusian wrote: »

My understanding is that that would be a perfectly neutral reference, not a bad one. And that many companies / HR departments will not give any other kind of reference to minimise risk of legal issues.

If I was in a position of having to give references that is what I'd expect my second reference to say (as I'm sure no-one else at the company remembers me).

Doesn't follow at all. Yes, some HR departments take this super cautious approach but not all by any means. However we don't know here if it is a big enough company to even have an HR department let alone what their policy is.

As I said before, potentially more damaging and a very likely consequence of making threats / sending solicitor's letters etc is that they simply refuse to provide any sort of reference.

That would be totally unactionable