Mis-selling & Deception by an IFA. How can I get maximum satisfaction?

BrianBadonde

In 2004 I was persuaded by an IFA to transfer my Pension to another company.

I recently discovered that substantial unauthorised commissions had been taken from my fund. This led me to gather information from my previous providor. I discovered my old Pension had Guaranteed Annuities.

I complained to the IFA & he has Upheld my complaint. He really had no choice, it's cut & dried.

He's offered to pay back the commission & interest inline with the growth of the fund. He's asking for more information to calculate his offer re the Guaranteed Annuities.


The thing is, I don't want to have any dealings with this IFA. He's lied & stolen from me. I could give the whole story here, but anyone who's seen his Offer Letter would say what he's done is Deception. Not an oversight or clerical error. Absolute deception. Add to that he took me out of a fantastic pension with Guaranteed Annuities.

At the bottom of his letter, he comments that the Ombudsman might not consider my case, as it's out of time. Is this correct? This was done in 2004, but I only just discovered it when it was pointed out by an Accountant.

I want to get Maximum compensation, but more importantly, I want justice! I want this lying theif prosecuted for deception. I want him struck off as not fit to practice. I want to warn others to check their funds!!!


So what can I do?
Are there specialist companies who could advise me?
Should I involve a Solicitor?


Thanks

molerat

There are FOS time limits http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/faq/businesses/answers/before_we_get_involved_a7.html

Have you spoken to the FOS to discuss the situation ? http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumer/complaints.htm

Unless it is obvious outright theft I doubt the police would be interested and if he is going to put you back into the situation you would have been in what can you take him to court for ?

BrianBadonde

Thanks Molerat

OK, well at 12 years, I'm well outside that limit, although part of the unauthorised commissions were annual, so maybe a technicality there...

I haven't spoken to the FOS. I didn't know I could, so I will follow that up on Monday, thanks!!!


I wasn't thinking of the Police. If you read the initial letter, you would say it's theft/deception, but at £5k (Net, before interest), I doubt the Police would be interested. I'm thinking for a private prosecution or something? I can't accept that an IFA should be able to lie & steal and not have their record marked.

bigadaj

Speaking to the regulator is a good idea.

To a large extent what he has earned out of this, whether that be fees, commissions or any other incentives is irrelevant.

You are just concerned with being put back in a position you would have been if you hadn't moved, that's the calculation that needs to be done, so you need to communicate with him to determine what that might be.

There is no reason for you to trust his calculations so you need to consider how you can get an objective opinion about whether the redress is fair and accurate.

BrianBadonde

Thanks Bigadaj

It's more than getting my money back though.

The slimy #### knowingly ripped me off & also put his own greed over my wellbeing by taking me out of a good scheme just to get his grubby hands on some cash. It's lower than a snake's belly, it disgusts me.

jamesd

The position that you would have been in could be quite a challenge for him because with a guaranteed annuity rate that would imply paying you enough money to buy an annuity paying what that GAR would pay if you'd carried on paying in to it. Say an 8% inflation-linked GAR with that now being maybe 2% in the market and he'd have to pay four times your anticipated contributions and growth just to get you what you've lost.

That'll be very punishing for him if he does it. But it's not prison time or banning from the business.

bigadaj

BrianBadonde wrote: »

Thanks Bigadaj

It's more than getting my money back though.

The slimy #### knowingly ripped me off & also put his own greed over my wellbeing by taking me out of a good scheme just to get his grubby hands on some cash. It's lower than a snake's belly, it disgusts me.

Understand the sentiment but you need to be objective and concentrate on your situation.

It's very probable that the recompense to put you back into the situation you would have been I'm without his advice is many times what he would have earned from the transaction originally.

Short of handing some of your recompense over to big Ron and his mates for a visit there's little else that can be done.

magpiecottage

bigadaj wrote: »

Speaking to the regulator is a good idea.

FOS is not the regulator - the FCA is. However, FOS would be the way to go.

The rules are that you must complain within six years of the defective advice (which has been exceeded) or, if later, within three years of when you first became aware (or ought reasonably to have become aware) that you had cause for complaint. That would be when your accountant told you that you did, from what you say.

12 years is irrelevant.

If the adviser has told you that you must refer it to FOS within six months of his response, you should call FOS on 0800 023 4567 (free from a landline) and discuss it.

bigadaj wrote: »

To a large extent what he has earned out of this, whether that be fees, commissions or any other incentives is irrelevant.

Agreed

bigadaj wrote: »

You are just concerned with being put back in a position you would have been if you hadn't moved, that's the calculation that needs to be done, so you need to communicate with him to determine what that might be.

Also agreed. However, I think, too that the IFA ought to pay around £200 for the "trouble and upset" caused.

bigadaj wrote: »

There is no reason for you to trust his calculations so you need to consider how you can get an objective opinion about whether the redress is fair and accurate.

This is true. However, you can ask for a copy of the calculations.

There are some specialists who can provide accurate calculations - so you can see who has actually done the work.

magpiecottage

BrianBadonde wrote: »

I recently discovered that substantial unauthorised commissions had been taken from my fund.

This seems unlikely as the new pension provider will have issued an illustration explaining the commissions at outset. If the commission paid was not in accordance with that you would also have a complaint against the provider. However, the monetary amounts are only illustrative as it is normally a percentage of the fund value. If the quoted percentage is higher you have a complaint if it is only the monetary amount (because the fund ended up larger than projected) you probably do not.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

This led me to gather information from my previous providor. I discovered my old Pension had Guaranteed Annuities.

That is a valid complaint,

BrianBadonde wrote: »

He's offered to pay back the commission & interest inline with the growth of the fund.

That is a reasonable basis on which to do this unless you were put into funds that were too high a risk for you.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

He's asking for more information to calculate his offer re the Guaranteed Annuities.

Not one of my clients as I do not have any of these cases on the go at present. My guess is that he is getting an external consultant to do this, though.

To do the calculation, you need to know when the GAR would be available, what the annuity rate would be, whether it included a guaranteed payment term, how it was inflation proofed, what pension was payable to a widow and if that is any widow or just the spouse at retirement, the date of birth of the spouse and what percentage of your pension your widow would get following your death.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

The thing is, I don't want to have any dealings with this IFA.

I can understand that.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

He's lied & stolen from me. I could give the whole story here, but anyone who's seen his Offer Letter would say what he's done is Deception. Not an oversight or clerical error. Absolute deception.

I can understand your anger but Hanlon's Razor seems to suggest that, in line with my own experience of such cases, your adviser has more likely been incompetent.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

Add to that he took me out of a fantastic pension with Guaranteed Annuities.

It probably never dawned on him that it might - as far as I recall, the standard training manuals at the time only warned about transferring from occupational pensions. This does not make him any less culpable but if the training manuals did not mention it many did not realise.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

At the bottom of his letter, he comments that the Ombudsman might not consider my case, as it's out of time. Is this correct?

This sounds like a standard paragraph that the FCA has required since last year. If it is in then they can prevent the ombudsman looking at it if it is more than 6 years since the advice was given AND more than 3 years since you knew, or ought reasonably to have known, that you had cause for complaint.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

This was done in 2004

So the six years have passed

BrianBadonde wrote: »

but I only just discovered it when it was pointed out by an Accountant.

but the three years haven't.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

I want to get Maximum compensation

You are entitled to be put into the position you would have been in but for his errors - plus some compensation for the trouble and upset you have been caused.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

but more importantly, I want justice! I want this lying theif prosecuted for deception. I want him struck off as not fit to practice.

That is not justice, that is vengeance.

BrianBadonde wrote: »

So what can I do?
Are there specialist companies who could advise me?
Should I involve a Solicitor?

You can involve a solicitor who will charge you but whose fees you will not be able to recover.

You can involve a claims management company whose fees you will also not be able to recover - and who will probably be even less competent at their job than your adviser was at his.

Or you can accept that your adviser is now doing the right thing and, if you are not sure, seek the assistance of the Financial Ombudsman Service.


Thanks[/QUOTE]

dunstonh

I want to get Maximum compensation, but more importantly, I want justice! I want this lying theif prosecuted for deception. I want him struck off as not fit to practice. I want to warn others to check their funds!!!

That is not your place to decide. All complaint stats are reported to the FCA and it is up to the regulator to decide if any action is to be taken.

Also, upholding a complaint does not mean that there was deception. It may be that the audit trail isnt great (quite possible for a 2004 case as the FSA (as it was then) didnt write its paper on pension switches until a couple of years later). It may be because the redress is actually cheaper than arguing the case. Funds with GARs frequently have very low performance figures and it is quite possible that the alternative has grown to a higher value than the old plan would have done. So, the net position may result in very little, if indeed any redress. Normally, they contact the original provider to ask for what the value would have been if it has been left. This allows them to compare the two. They can then take into account market rates and GARs against the respective values (i.e. market rates against your current value vs GAR on the value if it had been left).

The police will not be interested and it is unlikely you have the evidence to back up your assertion.

So, whether it was a deception, a mis-sale, a mistake or they are auto-upholding, the outcome for you would be the same and the report to the FCA would be the same.

BrianBadonde

Thanks very much guys! Much appreciated!!!!

It's difficult to tell the whole story here without long boring posts, but trust me when I say he was 1000% aware of what he was doing when he hid his commissions! Whether missing the GARs was incompetence, we'll never know, but the commission was wilful deception. I have the original letter. There's no wriggling out of what's written in that! I'm happy to share it with anyone who wants to read it.


OK, so yes the 6 years is well gone, but we only became aware about 5 weeks ago, when it was pointed out by our Accountant. I called the IFA within an hour & wrote to him 2 weeks later (time to gather info).

So I will speak to the FOS tomorrow & also take some legal advice, which I believe we can get Free with our mortgage.



Thanks again!