Dismissed

Safetyguy78

Just after some advice please. I have been working for a small company for 3 months after leaving a larger company after 10 years. I am not naive enough not expect a complete culture shock but I am purplexed at today's events.

For the last 2 months I have been paid late by 3-4 days without a payslip, a gentle nudge and payments received but no payslips. This month I was due to be paid on the 31st of August called on the 2nd to be told it had been sent and should be in because it is done instant transfer. The director told be he would check and call me back which never transpired, I text to ask if it could please be paid as my bills were due, new baby, one wage etc still nothing. On Monday still nothing, I called but the director hung up to which I text, I would work from home but would be returning the company vechile the following day if I was not paid. Within 15 minutes I had been paid. He then rung and asked me to take Tuesday and Wednesday off and attend my meeting with a client today. I drove over 300 miles there and back and won the contract to be told to go to a PUB for a team meeting at 4pm (there are 3 of us)

The meeting started amicably enough, until it became apparent he didn't like my stance on not being paid. Told him I appreciated cash flow may be tight being a small company and if he gave me enough notice I could transfer savings etc to cover bills. To which he informed me the business account is booming. After 40 minutes of him continuing chastise me he announced that we were parting terms immediately. He has never given me a contract, terms of employment or payslips just want to know how I stand legally.

London50

Sorry to hear of your situation but as you have been there for under 2 years the company can part company with you.:0(
I hope that your next employer understands that not paying on time/not informing an employee can and does cause major problems. Goodluck for the future :0)

Mersey_2

You should have received a written notice of terms a couple of months ago, by law. It doesn't matter that you didn't receive a written contract, as this is implied. As well as any assurances you were provided at interview or via email.


You should receive payslips. You can report this to HMRC & the NI Contributions Agency if you suspect your employer hasn't been paying tax or your NICs.


You are owed PILON as well as any accrued untaken holiday pay. This may only be a fortnight's worth of pay but it all helps to a new father supporting a young family, as well as being what you are rightfully owed by the firm.


Often this ends up being paid, even when parties do not part on amicable terms.


As not to is both in breach of employment law as well as breach of contract and ultimately actionable in the County Court if they continue not to pay up. (You can issue online for a £25 fee).


It sounds like you had a lucky escape.


As others have hinted, you do not possess full Employment Tribunal rights. These are limited to new employees to areas of discrimination and whistleblowing. (I assume you are not alleging fraud and it's just that the Director is forgetful or somewhat incompetent).

sangie595

Mersey wrote: »

As others have hinted, you do not possess full Employment Tribunal rights. These are limited to new employees to areas of discrimination and whistleblowing. (I assume you are not alleging fraud and it's just that the Director is forgetful or somewhat incompetent).

AND membership or non-membership of a trade union, and asserting statutory right. The latter being an interesting one because being paid on time isn't a statutory right - but receiving a payslip is. And since that is, you can add not receiving written terms and conditions of employment (which is a claim that cannot stand alone, and must be lodged in conjunction with another claim).

It may or may not be worth considering an action on that basis, but it is probably worth threatening one and see if it shakes anything lose in terms of compensation. Nothing ventured...

Guest101

sangie595 wrote: »

AND membership or non-membership of a trade union, and asserting statutory right. The latter being an interesting one because being paid on time isn't a statutory right - but receiving a payslip is. And since that is, you can add not receiving written terms and conditions of employment (which is a claim that cannot stand alone, and must be lodged in conjunction with another claim).

It may or may not be worth considering an action on that basis, but it is probably worth threatening one and see if it shakes anything lose in terms of compensation. Nothing ventured...

Not being paid on time is a breach of contract though and the OP could sue for any reasonable (mitigated) losses.

Vectis

Guest101 wrote: »

Not being paid on time is a breach of contract though and the OP could sue for any reasonable (mitigated) losses.

But what is 'on time' if there's no written contract? Even if there were one, most probably wouldn't be too specific about an exact date (e.g. 'usually the last day of the month').

I agree that the op is better off out of it.

steampowered

As you've been there more than a month, you are entitled to a week's notice (or a week's pay, if no notice was given).

sangie595

Guest101 wrote: »

Not being paid on time is a breach of contract though and the OP could sue for any reasonable (mitigated) losses.

A breach of contract is not illegal. It may be actionable, but not against the law. But I think you have missed the point I made. Dismissing someone for asserting a statutory right - the right to receive a pay slip - IS unfair dismissal AND is actionable from the first day of employment. And then you can add on the claim for failure to supply terms and conditions. That actually starts to make a pretty claim to an employment tribunal. Mersey forgot that in their summary of rights prior to two years.

As I said, it may not be the OPs wish to chance their arm at a tribunal, but I'd certainly chance it in a threatening letter! Personally, I'd probably chance it further because that's just me!

Mersey_2

sangie595 wrote: »

A breach of contract is not illegal. It may be actionable, but not against the law.

A breach of employment law isn't, "illegal" either.


I think you meant it's unlawful.

sangie595

Mersey wrote: »

A breach of employment law isn't, "illegal" either.


I think you meant it's unlawful.

No, I didn't mean unlawful, although that might be another word for "actionable" in the loosest sense, had I phrased the sentence differently - as in "a breach of contract is unlawful", as opposed to "a breach of contract is not illegal". Since I did not, my statement is absolutely correct - a breach of contract is not illegal. But thank you for attempting to nit pick the error that I didn't make.

This is hardly the same as pointing out that your advice that only discrimination and whistleblowing are actionable in a tribunal with less than two years service missed out an essential part of legislation which makes it actionable, should the OP wish to consider that route; or base a strategy on that to attempt to push the employer compensate.

Mersey_2

I was merely pointing out the difference between the civil and criminal law, which you clearly don't understand. Although lots of the general public say "illegal" too, when it's not criminal either, merely a civil breach.


You stated "...but not against the law" (implying that the breach of statutory right is).


Guest101was correct in what they said and yet you sought to correct them. But clearly we've both misunderstood the point you were trying to make.


As the OP is owed wages (re notice & and probably accrued holiday pay), issuing in the County Court would be the cheapest and swiftest remedy.


Although its refreshing to read that you would chance a Tribunal here, 'because that's just you.' This Damascus conversion is most welcome indeed, even if it is slightly at odds with all of your previous posts, where even OP's with decent prospects of success are told all is woe and the employer will win, so not to bother.