Dismissed with no notice.

DJRenegade

Hi guys, I am going to start with a bit of back story.

So I was given a job at KFC back in April, during my interview I requested no late shifts and that I didnt want to work as a cook, something they accepted. I am contracted to work a minimum of 4 hours a week. One week my rota had me down to do 47hours, up from an average of 15. All of these shifts were closes so I was rota'd to work until 0130 each shift, however due to cleaning etc it was more realistic to assume I would leave at around 3-4am each shift. The management at the store had a habit of putting up a rota on the Sunday (rota starts the next day) This was a huge shock and required me to rapidly organise stuff at home, childcare and what not. This was the last week before I had 2 weeks off.
I have had a rediculous 5-6 months with them, it started with signing the contract for work and then not receiving a shift for 3 months, not getting paid for 2 weeks, rota changes with no notice and then getting a telling off for arriving at work late. The 3 months of no work and 2 weeks of no pay caused me to fall behind with bills to the point where I am considering a debt management plan or DRO with step change, this caused massive amounts of stress at home and arguments between me and my partner.

During my 47hour week I found I was the only cook on the busiest shift of the week, this is a shift even 2 cooks can struggle to manage, add up all the other things that had happened to me and you can probably guess that my stress levels were through the roof. Well the area manager arrives and notices, in my panicked rush to get the chicken cooked and keep up with demand, that I had kept some chicken sat for about 30 seconds too long. She then proceeds to throw all the chicken I had prepped, including the stuff I was currently prepping in the bin. This would put me at least 15 minutes behind in an already unmanageable rush.
I needed to walk away as I was going to explode, so I went home fully expecting to get a bollocking.

I tried to contact the store to see what was going to happen with me but like everything in that store nobody seems to answer the phone. So I contacted the team leader that was on shift the day I walked off on facebook, to say I was happy to come back in to do my last 2 shifts before my holiday if they wanted me to. 2 days went by before I got a reply and at that point I was on holiday, the message just told me to ring the store and speak to the team leader on shift. Something I tried and failed to do due to the fact nobody seems to answer the damned phone.

So I decide that since I am now on holiday I will leave it for 2 weeks and try to contact them towards the end of it, if they need me for disciplinary action they can call me. However my holiday period is now coming to its end and today I recieved my P45 in the post.

I have not heard anything from them, not a peep, nothing. I plan on calling them tomorrow to see what the heck is happening but I am going to assume they have sacked me. Would I have any sort of claim for unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal if that is the case? I recieved no notice, they havent disciplined me, they havent even tried to contact me, and the rediculous increase in work hours with very little notice. Add to that the fact they gave me late shifts and the job as cook, both of which I had said I didnt want before I accepted work.

Luckily for me I have already secured a good well paid job elsewhere that starts in a months time, but if I hadnt I would be in some real trouble financially.

If you made it this far through my post/rant thanks for sticking with it lol.

ACG

If they have sacked you, you have no rights as you have been there less than 2 years.

That being said, im not sure how you could say getting dismissed after walking off mid shift would be unfair dismissal. I would not plan on putting any of my employees under that sort of pressure but if it was there I would expect them to deal with it and then have a conversation about it after. What happens the next time the going gets tough? You get up and leave everyone else to deal with it?

daytona0

DJRenegade wrote: »

Hi guys, I am going to start with a bit of back story.

So I was given a job at KFC back in April, during my interview I requested no late shifts and that I didnt want to work as a cook, something they accepted.

Do you have tangible evidence that this is true? Ie does your contract stipulate this? Not sure they'd amend one of their bog standard contracts to be honest...

I am contracted to work a minimum of 4 hours a week. One week my rota had me down to do 47hours, up from an average of 15. All of these shifts were closes so I was rota'd to work until 0130 each shift, however due to cleaning etc it was more realistic to assume I would leave at around 3-4am each shift.

I can vouch for those 2 hour cleaning jobs after the store. In McDonalds I managed to shave it down to 1h 30 mins with some creative cleaning

If, however, your contract states "a min of 4 hours a week" then I would imagine that they are perfectly entitled to shift you in for 47 hours.

If this was an issue, why wasn't 15 hours an issue? That is >4

The management at the store had a habit of putting up a rota on the Sunday (rota starts the next day) This was a huge shock and required me to rapidly organise stuff at home, childcare and what not. This was the last week before I had 2 weeks off.

Ah so you only have to get through one week of hell before you have 2 weeks off

Sucks about them putting up rotas with short notice.

I have had a rediculous 5-6 months with them, it started with signing the contract for work and then not receiving a shift for 3 months, not getting paid for 2 weeks, rota changes with no notice and then getting a telling off for arriving at work late.

Why did you remain with a company which didn't give you 4 hours a week in the first 3 months?! That's very strange on your part.

Not getting paid for 2 weeks? Well umm many places have a month wage payroll so 2 weeks is pretty good Also, I know McD pay bi-weekly, so seems legitimate?

What rota changes? You are contracted to a min of 4 hours and 47 meets that.

You got told off for arriving to work late?! What is the world coming to?!?!

The 3 months of no work and 2 weeks of no pay caused me to fall behind with bills to the point where I am considering a debt management plan or DRO with step change, this caused massive amounts of stress at home and arguments between me and my partner.

Well umm not being funny but:

If you are contracted to 4 hours a week then you'll be earning a max of £30 a week for 4 hours.

The average of 15 you state is more reasonable (about £100) but you've said they didn't staff you in for 3 months.... how can you trust them to staff you in on a weekly basis?! 47 hours would be the least of my worries

During my 47hour week I found I was the only cook on the busiest shift of the week, this is a shift even 2 cooks can struggle to manage, add up all the other things that had happened to me and you can probably guess that my stress levels were through the roof.

Only cook huh? At least we know why they staffed you in, because they had no other cooks I have no doubt you have been stitched up here! And that sucks. But I can't see what they have done wrong?

Well the area manager arrives and notices, in my panicked rush to get the chicken cooked and keep up with demand, that I had kept some chicken sat for about 30 seconds too long.

Wow, that's actually good from the manager! Seen some right dodgy things at McD, like people serving up veggie burgers which were cooked 8 hours earlier! Good that this manager has the customers in mind and are following food regulations.

She then proceeds to throw all the chicken I had prepped, including the stuff I was currently prepping in the bin. This would put me at least 15 minutes behind in an already unmanageable rush.
I needed to walk away as I was going to explode, so I went home fully expecting to get a bollocking.

So you walked off shift?

Just think of the other stressed colleagues having to clean up after your mess. I tolerated a lot in McD but things like this really ground my gears. I gave blood and sweat to my time in McD and regularly got the stitch ups like you did. You just get on with it and cope, or find somewhere else.

I was happy to come back in to do my last 2 shifts before my holiday if they wanted me to

So you could walk out again?!

I am going to assume they have sacked me. Would I have any sort of claim for unfair dismissal or constructive dismissal if that is the case? I recieved no notice, they havent disciplined me, they havent even tried to contact me, and the rediculous increase in work hours with very little notice.

I'll put it bluntly;

You quit the job by walking out.

Add to that the fact they gave me late shifts and the job as cook, both of which I had said I didnt want before I accepted work.

Is it in your contract? Otherwise, no tangible evidence exists

Luckily for me I have already secured a good well paid job elsewhere that starts in a months time, but if I hadnt I would be in some real trouble financially.

So one begs the question why you weren't doing this when they didn't staff you in for 3 months.

Or why you are arguing about money with your partner

If you made it this far through my post/rant thanks for sticking with it lol.

I made it

But in summary you have quit the job, the manager seems to have been right in criticising you (lateness, but don't see them throwing food away as a criticism!) and I am baffled that you are seeking closure/still bothered about this if you have a better job lined up..

Little tip for future jobs; don't walk out EVER. Luckily KFC and McD are platform jobs and you can get away with quitting in this manner, but not always in more professional ones.

sangie595

And just to add, you have no right to claim unfair dismissal in the first two years employment anyway. It can only be claimed on a few specific grounds, and none of them apply here. That said, if you had two years employment, you couldn't have claimed anyway. You quit for no good reason. The law doesn't work as you seem to think it does - you don't get to quit because you don't like the way things are run and claim unfair dismissal. They may not be one of the best employers around. But it doesn't seem that it was a job you wanted anyway - you turn up late, you don't want to work the shifts they say, and you think food hygiene rules are meant to be broken. But echoing the previous poster, I'm kind of impressed that they actually do follow the rules. It wasn't what I would have expected.

xapprenticex

I think you kinda got lucky getting out of there from the sounds of it. Good job you have something lined up as the JC would not give you JSA if they contacted the employer and found out you walked out.

DJRenegade

Hi guys thanks for the replies, I had a feeling I had no rights, and unfair dismissal was another example, I would have classed it as Constructive Dismissal if anything as I was given a role I didnt want, shifts I didnt want all of which was agreed before employment was accepted. And then given a major increase in hours with little to no notice when my employer knew I needed a weeks notice if my shifts would require me to book childcare. Plus the random 2 weeks where they just didnt pay me. All of which seems to fit under constructive dismissal, including me walking out as constructive dismissal normally ends with the employee leaving. The only part of it I didnt fit was the fact I willingly walked out. However in my post below I explain that I made it clear both when I was leaving and within the next 24 hours that I wasnt quitting. They didnt follow their disciplinary procedures and basically ignored my messages.

daytona0 wrote: »

If, however, your contract states "a min of 4 hours a week" then I would imagine that they are perfectly entitled to shift you in for 47 hours.

If this was an issue, why wasn't 15 hours an issue? That is >4

15 hours wasnt an issue as that was what I had been working for the previous 7 weeks. 47 hours was an issue as at the time of them releasing the rota I had less than 24 hours notice, my childcare provider requires a week. Dramatically raising my hours with next to no noticed caused more issues than the extra hours were worth. Oh and did I mention I was sue in at 7pm originally and turned up on time as far as I knew, but because they amended the rota the day before (less than 24 hours before the shift) I had no idea until I turned up, now 1 hour late.

daytona0 wrote: »

Ah so you only have to get through one week of hell before you have 2 weeks off

Sucks about them putting up rotas with short notice.

Yes and yes lol.

daytona0 wrote: »

Why did you remain with a company which didn't give you 4 hours a week in the first 3 months?! That's very strange on your part.

I was looking for other work, and was having no luck.

daytona0 wrote: »

Not getting paid for 2 weeks? Well umm many places have a month wage payroll so 2 weeks is pretty good Also, I know McD pay bi-weekly, so seems legitimate?

That would be OK if the 2 weeks of non payment didnt happen around 5 weeks into me actually recieving shifts.

daytona0 wrote: »

What rota changes? You are contracted to a min of 4 hours and 47 meets that.

Let me put this into an example, I finish work on Friday and check the rota before I leave, it says I am in for an afternoon shift as second cook on Monday starting at 4pm. The management then amend said rota on Saturday making it so I now start at 2pm. However since I am not psychic I am unaware of this change and arrive at work at 4pm, I then recieve a bollocking for being 2 hours late. In my case though they actually amended the rota mid week (the cause of me being the only cook on my shift) within 24 hours of the shift starting.

daytona0 wrote: »

You got told off for arriving to work late?! What is the world coming to?!?!

Please refer to previous comment.

daytona0 wrote: »

Well umm not being funny but:

If you are contracted to 4 hours a week then you'll be earning a max of £30 a week for 4 hours.

The average of 15 you state is more reasonable (about £100) but you've said they didn't staff you in for 3 months.... how can you trust them to staff you in on a weekly basis?! 47 hours would be the least of my worries

This is fine however I was laid off 2 months prior to signing my contract for KFC due to lack of work and was earning just short of £2k a month. My bills ended up being more than my income. I couldnt trust them to staff me in on a weekly basis, this is what caused some issues with certain bills and was the reason I was looking at a debt management plan.

daytona0 wrote: »

Only cook huh? At least we know why they staffed you in, because they had no other cooks I have no doubt you have been stitched up here! And that sucks. But I can't see what they have done wrong?

They did have other cooks, at least one of which had barly been given hours that week, the management admitted the mistake but did nothing to recify it. And yes they do like to call people and ask them to come into work within the hour.

daytona0 wrote: »

Wow, that's actually good from the manager! Seen some right dodgy things at McD, like people serving up veggie burgers which were cooked 8 hours earlier! Good that this manager has the customers in mind and are following food regulations.

Yes I suppose it was good, if she had thrown away the chicken she had an issue with, but throwing away everything I had prepared and everything that was cooking then saying something cocky ending it with "Its really simple" was OTT.

daytona0 wrote: »

So you walked off shift?

Just think of the other stressed colleagues having to clean up after your mess. I tolerated a lot in McD but things like this really ground my gears. I gave blood and sweat to my time in McD and regularly got the stitch ups like you did. You just get on with it and cope, or find somewhere else.

Yes I did and I dont regret it, I dont like been treated like !!!! and nobody deserves to get away with making another person feel like !!!!, especially when they are trying their hardest to get the work done. They had caused me stress leading up to this and I had put up with it. This wasnt the first incident of being left alone with no help as the least experienced cook at that store and I had buckled down previously but eventually everyone breaks.

daytona0 wrote: »

So you could walk out again?!

I explained everything in my message to the team leader, I had voiced my concerns previously.

daytona0 wrote: »

I'll put it bluntly;

You quit the job by walking out.

When I left I said something along the lines of "Do you know what, if its that simple do it yourself, I need to go cool off" So I didnt imply that I was quitting, followed up by a message to the team leader within 24 hours explaining everything and even saying I wasnt quitting would mean that I fit into this ruling at court "The leading cases are those of Kwik-Fit Ltd v Lineham and Ali v Birmingham City Council. It was decided that an appropriate period for the employee to change his mind was "likely to be a day or two". That is on the assumption that the employee had not already been given the opportunity to reflect on their apparent resignation and retract it." (quote from just answer)

daytona0 wrote: »

Is it in your contract? Otherwise, no tangible evidence exists

If I remember correctly it was written on the top of the contract. I dunno if this counts but as it was signed I dont see why it wouldnt.

daytona0 wrote: »

So one begs the question why you weren't doing this when they didn't staff you in for 3 months.

Or why you are arguing about money with your partner

I was with little success, since receiving my P45 I have actually been offered 2 more job interviews, typical.

daytona0 wrote: »

I made it

But in summary you have quit the job, the manager seems to have been right in criticising you (lateness, but don't see them throwing food away as a criticism!) and I am baffled that you are seeking closure/still bothered about this if you have a better job lined up..

Its exactly this sort of attitude that causes employers to continue treating staff like !!!!, if nobody fights back they will continue to get away with it. I was trying to see if I had any rights as other than walking out and being late for turning up to a shift that I had no idea was changed, I was flawless at that place and put up with all the !!!!!!!! leading up to me walking out.

daytona0 wrote: »

Little tip for future jobs; don't walk out EVER. Luckily KFC and McD are platform jobs and you can get away with quitting in this manner, but not always in more professional ones.

This is the only job I have ever walked out on and I dont plan on walking out on anymore. I can put up with high pressure situations, I have been to Afghanistan for god sake. What I cannot deal with is employers trying to treat people like crap on a daily basis and not expect somebody to eventually stand up to them. I am not putting my health at risk (stress) for the sake of £7.20ph. Thanks for your input though

sangie595

I'm going to make this very short and very clear.

You had no case for constructive unfair dismissal even if you had the two years employment. Not would you have had a case of unfair dismissal. You would have paid a lot of money to be trounced in a tribunal. And possibly have to pay the employers costs for such a frivolous claim.

You appear to misunderstand the employment relationship in places like KFC. Or, in fact, in many places. You may stipulate whatever hours of work and shifts you like but they will put you on the shifts and hours that suits their employment, and if you don't like it, that is tough. They don't care about your childcare problems - they are your children, not theirs. They don't care about your excuse for being late being a good one - you are expected to be there on time. And you are expected to follow the hygiene rules, not make them up as you go along. They don't have to follow disciplinary procedures before youhave two years, but in any case, you don't need a disciplinary process for someone who quit- which is what you did by walking out. And if you don't like any of these things, there are plenty of other people who will happily have your job.

You seem to think that a tour in Afghanistan makes you an employment lawyer. It doesn't. They may be, and probably are, rotten employers. But that doesn't make you right. And you aren't. Treat employers like this again, no matter how bad they are, and you will be sacked. I'm sorry, but it is you that was in the wrong here, not KFC. I can appreciate it's a rubbish job. Fine. If that is the case, you put in your notice. Or don't take the job in the first place. But there is no point in taunting and pontificating on all your legal rights when actually, even with the two years, you didn't have these rights!