Prosecution for unpaid penalty fare?

ERMM

Hi, hoping someone might be able to help.

Back in June I was given a £20 penalty fare for travelling without my season ticket, which I'd accidentally left at work without realising. I paid £10 on the spot and was told I'd easily get it back by appealing.

I then received a reminder letter and a final reminder within a couple of days of each other, escalating it to £80 left to pay. I'd thought I'd submitted an appeal online (genuinely!) but couldn't find any record of it, so went online again and wrote another appeal.

Appeal was rejected because it was after the 21 days, because I'd received a reminder 'so long' before the final reminder (yeah, like 2 days), and because apparently if I had submitted an appeal in time they would have a record of it so I must be lying.

I finally got someone to call me back by continually pressing buttons on their payment number, and asked what it was they would be prosecuting me for if they took me to court (as it threatens to do in the letters). She said for travelling without buying a ticket- I explained that I clearly had bought a ticket and had provided evidence of the season ticket- she then went to ask someone else and came back saying that the offence I'd be prosecuted for would be for not being able to show the ticket. I asked for the exact wording but she told me there wasn't exact wording and I should ask the CAB. She basically just told me to wait for it to go to court if I was so sure I wasn't guilty.

I thought that the offence would be fare evasion, i.e. intentionally travelling without paying the fare- which I haven't done.

Clearly I'm not keen on escalating it and making a mountain out of a molehill, but I also don't want to pay it as that seems like an admission of guilt.

I'm hugely anti people travelling without buying a ticket, and I never would. But I DID buy a ticket!

Really can't afford to get a criminal record over this due to my job. Does anyone know more about the technicalities of this? Am I guilty of an offence?

Bollotom

I'm afraid you did actually travel without a valid ticket, then didn't appeal in time despite having a couple of reminders. Had you had something like the receipt for the purchase of the ticket they might have been more lenient. Although you insist you DID buy a ticket, you didn't produce it on request. Write another letter, photocopy of season ticket and ask for them to reconsider any prosecution. You might be lucky.

wealdroam

ERMM wrote: »

Hi, hoping someone might be able to help.

Back in June I was given a £20 penalty fare for travelling without my season ticket, which I'd accidentally left at work without realising. I paid £10 on the spot and was told I'd easily get it back by appealing.

I then received a reminder letter and a final reminder within a couple of days of each other, escalating it to £80 left to pay. I'd thought I'd submitted an appeal online (genuinely!) but couldn't find any record of it, so went online again and wrote another appeal.

Appeal was rejected because it was after the 21 days, because I'd received a reminder 'so long' before the final reminder (yeah, like 2 days), and because apparently if I had submitted an appeal in time they would have a record of it so I must be lying.

I finally got someone to call me back by continually pressing buttons on their payment number, and asked what it was they would be prosecuting me for if they took me to court (as it threatens to do in the letters). She said for travelling without buying a ticket- I explained that I clearly had bought a ticket and had provided evidence of the season ticket- she then went to ask someone else and came back saying that the offence I'd be prosecuted for would be for not being able to show the ticket. I asked for the exact wording but she told me there wasn't exact wording and I should ask the CAB. She basically just told me to wait for it to go to court if I was so sure I wasn't guilty.

I thought that the offence would be fare evasion, i.e. intentionally travelling without paying the fare- which I haven't done.

Clearly I'm not keen on escalating it and making a mountain out of a molehill, but I also don't want to pay it as that seems like an admission of guilt.

I'm hugely anti people travelling without buying a ticket, and I never would. But I DID buy a ticket!

Really can't afford to get a criminal record over this due to my job. Does anyone know more about the technicalities of this? Am I guilty of an offence?

Under the heading D. YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES, Condition 22 of The National Rail Conditions of Carriage says:

22. Inspection of tickets

You must show and, if asked to do so by the staff of a Train Company or its agent, hand over for inspection a valid ticket and any relevant Railcard, photocard or other form of personal identification in accordance with Condition 15. If you do not, you will be treated as having joined a train without a ticket and Condition 2 or 4 will apply. If an Electronic Ticket cannot be displayed, you will be treated as if you were unable to hand a valid ticket over for inspection.

gazapc

Unfortunately you have committed an offence. I would recommend visiting a dedicated forum, search rail dispute and prosecutions in google. If only to avoid making any further mistakes and to try and figure out how best to resolve the situation.

daveyjp

Railuk forums is the place to ask the question.

BadBehaviour

Clearly the train company hasn't suffered a material loss from OP failing to show ticket during the inspection.

He possessed a valid ticket and had paid for the journey in advance but just didn't have the ticket there and then to show. The £20 fine seems a fair punishment.

Taking him to court and giving him a criminal record when he clearly wasn't trying to avoid paying is way too disproportionate. Applying rules too strictly can result in an injustice.

OP, hope they will see reason.

wealdroam

BadBehaviour wrote: »

Clearly the train company hasn't suffered a material loss from OP failing to show ticket during the inspection.

He possessed a valid ticket and had paid for the journey in advance but just didn't have the ticket there and then to show. The £20 fine seems a fair punishment.

Taking him to court and giving him a criminal record when he clearly wasn't trying to avoid paying is way too disproportionate. Applying rules too strictly can result in an injustice.

OP, hope they will see reason.

Yes, a £20 Penalty Fare does seem reasonable, doesn't it?

The problem is, that despite receiving reminders, the OP has only paid half of it - £10.

He says he has sent an appeal, but cannot demonstrate that.

Are you really expecting the railway to 'forget' about the remaining £10 debt?

As the Penalty Fare has not been paid, the train operator will most likely 'cancel' that civil debt and set the wheels in motion for a criminal prosecution.

OP, as has been suggested, get over to Railuk Forums and seek more specialist help.

BadBehaviour

wealdroam wrote: »

Yes, a £20 Penalty Fare does seem reasonable, doesn't it?

The problem is, that despite receiving reminders, the OP has only paid half of it - £10.

He says he has sent an appeal, but cannot demonstrate that.

Are you really expecting the railway to 'forget' about the remaining £10 debt?

As the Penalty Fare has not been paid, the train operator will most likely 'cancel' that civil debt and set the wheels in motion for a criminal prosecution.

OP, as has been suggested, get over to Railuk Forums and seek more specialist help.

Apparently he appealed and they say they didn't get any appeal. That's why OP didn't pay the other half of the fine; he was waiting for the appeal.

OP just offer to pay the other £10 and be done with it. Not worth getting a criminal record over a tenner.

Technically that tenner is money the company is actually earning from OP since he had regularly paid for his ticket so all this zealousness in demanding a measly tenner from a season ticket holder leaves me a bit baffled. Not like he was trying to travel for free.

They should be able to see on their systems there is a season ticket in OP's name and just waive the fine altogether. OP could very well decide not to bother travelling with them in the future and they lose many £££ for the sake of being too strict and a measly tenner.

I said the fine is reasonable yes, but thinking about it, the company said they would basically forget about the fine if OP showed he had the season ticket. They are now using technicalities to still get this money from OP, like submitting the valid season ticket a week later means it's somehow not valid anymore.

I'm aware they have clear rules but there needs to be some common sense when applying them. OP paid most likely good money for the season ticket and gets treated like a criminal basically.