Unsatisfactory job ref resulted in loss of job offer!

xapprenticex

Sorry to hear this happen, its clear the manager didnt like you much but the average is in comparison to the others you worked with, unless you was better than the rest, average can be justified.

Now if the other ref came through and was positive, im sure you wouldnt be in this situation now. I'd be focusing my attention on the person who didnt bother respond rather than the one that did.

Gavin83

TELLIT01 wrote: »

As said previously, your former employer is covering his **** by giving 'average' rating throughout. It's not a negative reference and they aren't risking any come back from a future employer if that employer doesn't see you as above average or exceptional.

I'm really not sure what comeback the employer would have against the previous employer if they don't agree with their performance. Entirely possible the companies have different opinions of what constitutes exceptional or even that the employee doesn't like the environment of the new company.

As long as it's factual (hard to prove it wasn't) then they've really no comeback.

If he really wanted to remain neutral he shouldn't have answered the questions at all.

Prothet_of_Doom

I have worked for people who I believe seriously considered me to be mediocre, or average, but never actually said, and the references I've had are glowing. Definitely they'd employ me again. Excellent to everything. Just proves what a total hash up references are.

robatwork

This tick box system is frankly ridiculous.
But you have been given a "C" grade which an employer would rightly find off-putting, as it is saying you have just done enough to get by. Of course you think this is rubbish.

While employees and new employers are able and prepared to take old employers to court for giving unreliable references, you can expect this kind of nonsense to carry on.

This is why when I am asked for a reference all I ever say is Mr Firefly worked for us from 12th Never 1998 to 14th Never 2016.

That's it. No opinion. I would dearly love to put things in there about sickness being surprisingly taken much more on Monday and Friday than other weekdays. Or leaving the microwave dirty. Or humming YMCA. Sadly, litigation has meant that references are now largely meaningless.

Eastender

Gavin83 wrote: »

I'm really not sure what comeback the employer would have against the previous employer if they don't agree with their performance. Entirely possible the companies have different opinions of what constitutes exceptional or even that the employee doesn't like the environment of the new company.

As long as it's factual (hard to prove it wasn't) then they've really no comeback.

If he really wanted to remain neutral he shouldn't have answered the questions at all.

That is how I feel. He never managed us directly, even when the team had no manager during the last few months of the project, as he was based in another town but oversaw the whole project as well as other projects. He wrote on the ref form that he line managed me for the last 3 months of the project, how can you line manage a team from another town?. In fact, we're without a manager for those months and no manager was appointed! I doubt no one would come in for 3 months. He just oversaw us from his base from another region.

He was in no position to give a character ref. There were 5 categories. Excellent, Good, Aveg, Below Avg and Poor.

The fact that he did not even consider 'Good' any area rang alarm bells to the new employer coupled with the fact that he would not re-employ me. The ref from previous employers carries a lot of weight than other ref.

montyrebel

considering your last employer didn't have to give any sort of reference, it sounds fair to me.

dcouponzzzz

Eastender wrote: »

how can you line manage a team from another town?.

My manager is currently the line manager for 8 UK staff and 40 US staff, 8 of which report to me for performance review and improvement management.

Gavin83

robatwork wrote: »

While employees and new employers are able and prepared to take old employers to court for giving unreliable references, you can expect this kind of nonsense to carry on.

I still don't see how a new employer can take an old employer to court and win when much of it is largely opinion. So what, if you have an employee you think is great, they move on and the new company don't agree they can sue you? Never heard of such a thing.

Of course if you lie about factual information (job title, start date, etc) I can understand but not employee satisfaction.

Eastender wrote: »

how can you line manage a team from another town?.

It happens in my company.

Undervalued

robatwork wrote: »

Sadly, litigation has meant that references are now largely meaningless.

I think it is more a completely out of proportion fear of litigation. It is what I call the coffee cup mentality where some companies felt it necessary to print "caution contents may be hot" on the cup for "fear" of being sued.

The number of legal challenges regarding allegedly unfair references is incredibly small. The only legal options are either an enormously expensive high court action for libel or a rare county court action for negligent misstatement.

Nothing in this thread suggest anything more than two different but honestly held opinions. The OP clearly feels he was above average yet his manager was less convinced.

A scale of 1 to 5, which is effectively what this is, is frankly a fairly daft way of gathering information. Few people will opt for the extremes so that really makes it one of three choices.

ScorpiondeRooftrouser

I think the 'Average' is explainable. Most employees are average.

What's a killer is the "would not re-employ". It's obvious that if that is said, there's something wrong with the person - you can't say "We rate everyone average, but we wouldn't re-employ this average person". Either the person who filled that in is an idiot or they genuinely wouldn't want to re-employ you, regardless of projects.