LETTER re:- CL FINANCE DEBT

moonrakermagpie

Hi there,
At the same time as sending a letter to moocroft (who could not supply a signed CCA), we also sent a letter requesting a copy of the signed CCA to Howard Cohen Solicitors for CL finance limited acting for River island, this was for another of "E's"debts from 2003.

Today we received a copy of the signed CCA (“true copy of the alleged agreement”) the form is signed by “E” and is dated 30-6-03.

The debt amount is for £519.94. ( was originally for around £300)

They have not supplied:-

2. The deed of assignment allowing you (them) to collect this debt, nor

3. A statement of account.

Should they also have sent these documents, can I “force” them to!!

If they cannot supply these, can they still pursue the debt.

Their previous letter of 24-7-07 states that the last payment they received was 6-12-06.

What is my next best move.

If we end up paying I have two options, I can offer them a monthly amount, (“E” could possible afford £5 a month at a push but I would prefer to offer £1 or £2 per month.
Second option, I could offer them a settlement payment of around half of the £519 or maybe ask for the amount of the original debt and then offer that amount.( I would pay the lump sum and get the money back off “E” monthly

Would it be better to contact CL finance direct?

Lastly, if we are force to pay would it be best to phone and negotiate (quicker) or should I write to them.

Many thanks:A :A

Steve and for “E”

angelavdavis

Hi Steve,

Just checking in before the wedding madness starts so it will be brief.

There is a letter here that you can adjust for your circumstances (eg scrap the CCA ref bit) to insist that they provide the deed of assignment, etc. Do not pay them unless they can prove that they are the curent debt collectors (many times people pay companies, then find out they are not current and the money is not included in the account - lots of probs).

Yes, write direct to CL Limited.

Ensure you send recorded and include reference to your previous letters (and copies also) so you have a legal record.

Good luck

Ange

moonrakermagpie

Hi, Ange thankyou for that, thought I was thinking along the right lines.

I do not have the address for CL finance, but will Google and search on MSE for it.
But if anyone has it to hand it would be welcome.


Should I tell CL finance that howard-cohen have supplied a copy of the CCA and do I send them a copy of howard-cowens letter and copy of the copy CCA they sent??

Many thanks

Steve

rog2

Since Moorcroft could not provide the cca within the time (12 working days) then the agreement became unenforceable. In order to re-instate the cca, then the creditor would need to apply to the courts for a court order.
It did NOT matter that it was Moorcroft who could not provide the cca, as they claimed to be working on behalf of the original creditor.
You say that the amount, on the CCA, does not correspond with the original amount - are you saying that this has been altered?
I think that you may need to get some legal advice (CAB for example) as I don't think that this agreement is enforceable.
The ONLY contact that you should have with Howard COHEN is to send the letter asking for the deed of assignment.

moonrakermagpie

Sorry rog2,

I can see that the way I worded my OP it was a bit confusing and have now edited it.
This new thread is for a different debt to the moorcroft debt completely, sorry about that.
Could you poss' reread the OP and let me know your thoughts

I will post back with more question later.

Cheers Steve

moonrakermagpie

Hi there,
Can I ask a question, in the first letter to Howard Cohen requesting a cca etc it states :-

With reference to the above account, I would like the following information provided to me at your earliest convenience.

1. A true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number XXXXXXXX.

2. The deed of assignment allowing you to collect this debt

3. A statement of account

I would request that this data is provided to myself within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that you cease chasing this unsubstantiated debt.

>>>IT IS SAYING THEY HAVE - 28 DAYS TO REPLY<<<

In the post by angelavdavis (above) she has posted a link to another letter which states:-

Your obligation also extends to providing me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order which represents payment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. I understand that a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days from the date of this letter.

>>>IN THIS LETTER IT IS SAYING THEY ONLY HAVE 12 DAYS TO REPLY<<<

The original letter was sent on the 08/08/2007 and we received a reply on the 10 or 11 sep 2007.

Have they taken to long to reply, even though we have received it, did they have "12" or did they have "28" days to reply.

Many thanks

Steve

rog2

It's a bit confusing, but, on receipt of a request for a cca, the creditor/dca MUST supply that cca within 12 working days of your request, otherwise the original agreement is no longer enforceable unless the creditor/dca obtains a Court Order.
If after 30 days, the creditor/dca has still not supplied a copy of the original cca, the they have comitted an offence under the Consumer Credit Act, 1974.

a. Creditor/dca provides true copy of signed cca within 12 working days of your request = cca enforceable.

b. Creditor/dca provides true copy of cca after 12 days, but within 12+2+30 days (42 days) of your request = cca can ONLY be enforced if creditor/dca obtains a Court Order.

c. Creditor/dca does NOT provide a true copy of signed cca after the period in b. then the cca is no longer enforceable and the creditor/dca has comitted an offence under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

In the case of the letter, received from Howard COHEN, you ARE entitled to be given a copy of the 'deed of assignment' or written confirmation from the original creditor, that they have instructed Howard COHEN to attempt to recover the 'alleged debt' on their behalf.

You are ALSO entitled to receive, on request, a FULL statement of the account in question, with details of any charges.

A failure, by Howard COHEN, to provide these details means that they are acting in contravention of OFT Debt Collection Guidelines:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

and should be reported to the Trading Standards Office.

I, personally, would advise that you make ALL future negociations, IN WRITING, and to the ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

There are some EXCELLENT sample letters, which include offers of monthly reduced payment and offers for 'Full and Final Settlement', on the National Debtline website:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/debt_advice.php#6

I would suggest that you start any letter, to CL finance, with the words:

"I have received a letter from a Company calling itself Howard COHEN, Solicitors, to whom I acknowledge no debt whatsoever.
As this 'Company' have failed to supply me with any deed of assignment or detailed statement of the alleged debt, to which I am entitled and as confirmed in the Guidelines for Debt Collection laid down by the Office of Fair Trading, I will NOT discuss this matter further with Howard COHEN.
ANY further attempts to contact me, by the aforementioned Howard COHEN will result in a complaint to the Trading Standards Office, and other relevant statutory bodies including, if necessary, the Police as further contact will be judged as harassment contrary to the terms of the Administration Act 1980."

moonrakermagpie

Hi there,

Can I just clarify?

We sent the letter requesting a copy of the signed CCA to Howard Cohen Solicitors for CL finance limited acting for River island, on the 08/08/2007 so they would have got it a day or so later.

We received their reply dated 11/09/2007 , on the 13/09/07 and have not replied to them.

By my reckoning there are about 34 days between us sending and receiving a reply.

What exactly should I do, as it is obviously over the 12 days but within “12+2+30 days (42 days) of your request (= cca can ONLY be enforced if creditor/dca obtains a Court Order.”).

If CL finance or Howard Cohen apply for a court order, would the cost for this be added to the debt, (as the inability to provide the cca is their fault not ours this would surely be unfair.)

Should I write to them about the fact that they took longer than the required 12 days or should I just wait till they contact us again.

As I need to write to them regarding –“As this 'Company' have failed to supply me with any deed of assignment or detailed statement of the alleged debt, to which I am entitled”,

Should I write combining the time in replying issue, together with the other issues quoted above?

Many thanks

Steve

moonrakermagpie

Bumping so rog2 can give me his thoughts, ( and anyone else come to that)

rog2

moonrakermagpie wrote: »

Bumping so rog2 can give me his thoughts, ( and anyone else come to that)

Hi mrm - I'm not going to be around much, over the next few days, but there is a letter (needs to be adapted to your circumstances) on the following link:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=6302081#post6302081

IF CL finance/Howard Cohen are succesful in their application for a Court Order, then yes the costs probably would be awarded against you, but there's still something that doesn't gel, to me.

I would, to be honest, feel happier if you talked to CAB about this one - you could try a private message to debt doctor (he works for CAB as a debt adviser).

It MIGHT be better to make token payments (£1 pcm) to CL Finance - leave COHEN out of the equation.
Have a look at:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/debt_advice.php#6

For some good template letters.

Keep ALL correspondence in WRITING ONLY and keep copies of any letters.

debt_doctor

Hi, well rog2 has been doing a good job as usual !
Essentially until the creditor supplies the required information the debt is unenforceable. The courts will usually allow enforceabillity whenever the true copy is produced outside time limits or not.

So, communicate in writting only and until you receive the required info then dont pay ! If they do take you to the county court without providing the information then fill in the defence form sent to you by the court and provide all the info you have at the hearing.

Best

DD