Should I take the time off

Alice_Walker

mingus2003 wrote: »

From what I have heard and seen they will make your life as hard as possible to get what they want. They make you think you cannot do you job and forever doubting yourself.

Re-reading the email I got to day it sounds like they are trying to manage me out and get a reaction but all I can do is laugh in their face. I have even gone as far to think well.... i cant sort the problems and they will get the reaction they want but i'm not like that!

But you're not laughing in their face and they are making your life as hard as possible.

If you're not fit for work then take time off. Whatever you decide, you need to start looking for a new job. This isn't about winning or losing, it's about getting your health back.

sangie595

Alice_Walker wrote: »

But you're not laughing in their face and they are making your life as hard as possible.

If you're not fit for work then take time off. Whatever you decide, you need to start looking for a new job. This isn't about winning or losing, it's about getting your health back.

I kind of agree, but not necessarily for exactly the same reasons.The OP's posts are contradictory at times, but the most recent events are illogical on the part of the employer in terms of business need, and in terms of attempting to "manage someone out".

I agree entirely that this workplace does not sound ideal, and it probably isn't a very healthy place to work. But equally, whether it is some form of "feedback loop" of one thing reinforcing another or not, I am not hearing that the employer is actually all that evil either, but I am hearing that the OP's performance is not up to scratch And that is all based on what the OP is saying.

Look to the beginning of the thread, and we see that the grievance was addressed. The OP didn't think so, because they didn't get what they wanted, but it was. The banter in the office was addressed - and actually that is quite unusual, because despite the fact that it really is wrong for this sort of banter to take place, most employers respond with the "it's just banter / humour" line, and that is an end to it. This employer didn't. The grievance also contained a request for flexible working. That wasn't the place to raise it - flexible working requests are not grievances, and nor is the fact that your commute to work gets you into the office early.

I had initially thought that this was a larger workplace, but now, knowing both the size and what it does, then it was entirely reasonable for the employer to refuse a request to start work 90 minutes early. The fact that these are more convenient working hours for the OP does not mean they have a better argument - this is a very small employer keeping "office hours" which is when their business is done. TBH, the request sounds quite unreasonable.

So that part of the grievance that was valid was dealt with appropriately, and that part that wasn't was refused. I am not seeing exactly what the OP therefore had cause to be unhappy about. Nevertheless, they were unhappy.

Now I don't know what a "public blasting" consists of, and problem performance should always be dealt with properly and in private, but equally, the OP now says that there has been performance failure, and so there are grounds for the employers concerns. The OP says that so far they haven't given the employer grounds to wish to dismiss, but I would suggest that that is about to change. The employer appears to have removed all but the most basic of work from the employee. This is a small office, and that puts the business under pressure. This sounds as though the employer does not trust the OP with key business contacts, and I wonder what the reason for that might be. Perhaps the mistakes the OP "sometimes" makes are serious and impact on key relationships? It doesn't sound at all like an attempt to manage someone out. It sounds like the beginning of a capability process to monitor and record the mistakes someone makes. And the OP may be right about the employer not liking to dismiss people - some small employers hate doing it and hesitate to do it even when they should. Not dismissing someone isn't an indicator that the employer has been happy about the OP's work; it could just as easily be an indicator that the employer won't face up to problems until they are pushed to, and then, as is often the case, deals with them in the wrong way.

Either way "laughing in their face" is an entirely odd reaction. Equally, someone very stressed isn't seriously going to be considering when it would be best to go off sick. That sounds more like strategizing.

I don't doubt that the OP is unhappy at work, but I am not seeing a clear cut situation here. I do think that if the OP is that ill, they must take time to recover. But that isn't going to change anything in the workplace, and I don't see how the OP can expect to go back and see anything different. In which case, is totting up long term sick leave the best way of approaching this? The OP may be better with a mutually agreed termination. Or looking for another job. The latter being something that they may struggle with if they have a lot of sickness on their record.

nja-nja

My advice - from being in a nasty situation at work which did eventually lead to me taking quite a few months off sick is as follows:

1) get legal advice - this is not that expensive for the first consultation and they will give you good solid advice (use a firm you or your family know ideally, but they must have a specific employment law person/dept). Remember you are not starting legal action here you are just getting good advice.

2) they will most probably tell you to go off sick - this is not a tactic, but just that you are sick and need some time to recover (treat stress as an illness like any other)

3) You will then need to discuss further action (if necessary). Some of the things you have talked about sound like bullying, but the solicitor will know better (especially as you will have time to give them a much fuller picture than you can on here).

4) it is possible (but not inevitable) that going off sick will eventually lead to you leaving the company, but you staying in a job that is making you ill is much much worse

Getting advice does not mean you are taking any particular course, but it does mean you will be in the best position to make a choice.

t0rt0ise

nja-nja wrote: »

My advice - from being in a nasty situation at work which did eventually lead to me taking quite a few months off sick is as follows:

1) get legal advice -

Why do you think they need legal advice? The OP simply needs to find another job. And not go sick if at all possible because that will make finding another job all the more difficult. If it is necessary to go sick then maybe just leave and go onto ESA benefit and get well.

Jox

I guess that they need legal advice as the behaviour of the employer is pointing towards constructive dismissal.

From hearing about similar situations my friends' have been in, going down this route can take years, is stressful and may result in a compensation payment (or not).

Personally, whenever I have been unhappy at work or treated badly I have just found another job.

Maybe that is just running away but I would prefer to start from scratch somewhere else before I get to breakdown stage.

nja-nja

t0rt0ise wrote: »

Why do you think they need legal advice? The OP simply needs to find another job. And not go sick if at all possible because that will make finding another job all the more difficult. If it is necessary to go sick then maybe just leave and go onto ESA benefit and get well.

Having been there myself (and before that having similar views to you) it gives you a different perspective. If you are in a stressful situation ("Since this time I have been going to my doctors and battling stress" - in the original post), you are not in the best frame of mind to go through the (also stressful and time-consuming) process of finding another job.

They need some professional advice. They already have the doctors advice, but it will do no harm to get a different perspective (it was definitely the best thing I did, after going through 6 months of hell)

Jox

I personally would rather not go through 6 months of hell, the work situation will not get better unless the causers of the unhappiness leave so before getting to mental health and physical health deterioration stage maybe it best to get signed off and look for another job.

If things get to tribunal stage there is a chance the OP's name may be published on the internet and that will be on their googleable record for evermore for future employers to read about.

sangie595

Jox wrote: »

I guess that they need legal advice as the behaviour of the employer is pointing towards constructive dismissal.
.

No, it actually isn't. It takes an awful lot more to make a case of constructive unfair dismissal, and it is best done (and there really isn't a best case scenario in such claims) when the employer can't find any mistakes in your performance. Even if the employer isn't handling it well (according to the OP) making mistakes justifies being pulled up and justifies work being monitored or removed. Which means that the OP is going to struggle to show evidence that doing this is unfair. And refusing to allow someone to start an hour and a half before business hours because they have transport problems is definitely not cause for constructive unfair dismissal. If bullying is being alleged, then that is a further can of worms, since bullying is not easy to prove, and is not, per se, a matter covered in employment law.

Bearing in mind the costs of a tribunal now, and the costs of legal representation (no free representation for employment law), then you would need a strong case to even risk a claim of constructive unfair dismissal, and nothing here suggests the OP has that.

nja-nja

sangie595 wrote: »

No, it actually isn't. It takes an awful lot more to make a case of constructive unfair dismissal, and it is best done (and there really isn't a best case scenario in such claims) when the employer can't find any mistakes in your performance. Even if the employer isn't handling it well (according to the OP) making mistakes justifies being pulled up and justifies work being monitored or removed. Which means that the OP is going to struggle to show evidence that doing this is unfair. And refusing to allow someone to start an hour and a half before business hours because they have transport problems is definitely not cause for constructive unfair dismissal. If bullying is being alleged, then that is a further can of worms, since bullying is not easy to prove, and is not, per se, a matter covered in employment law.

Bearing in mind the costs of a tribunal now, and the costs of legal representation (no free representation for employment law), then you would need a strong case to even risk a claim of constructive unfair dismissal, and nothing here suggests the OP has that.

Your answer confirms the reasons for my advice. We do not know the full story and posting information on here is not going give anyone enough info to provide solid advice.

My initial consultation did not cost anything, but it may depending on the firm, and does not commit you to anything (and not many cases go to tribunal anyway)

They have had independent advice regarding their health, they need independent advice regarding their employment. I tried ACAS and CAB (who suggested a solicitor anyway) and they didn't really have a solution for me, and I'm not sure there is another place for people to go (I would be glad for someone to have that answer)

eamon

I'm with all the others here. You need to find a new job as yours is slowly being taken away (they hope you will resign). Take your GP's recommended sick leave and plan a path out of this predicament. I don't see any mileage in going legal apart from getting all the points here covered face to face.