Accident at work, employer says i can't claim

agrinnall

dickydonkin wrote: »

In the OP's situation, the ideal control measure would be in the first instance, try to address the source of the floor contamination.

It may be my fault for confusing things earlier but you seem to be thinking that the OP slipped as a result of something that should not have been on the floor, whereas in fact it's clear that the floor had been mopped (i.e. removing any contaminants). What we don't know is whether that mopping had been done properly, and the floor was simply damp as a result, or if there were pools of water on the floor. If it's the former than I reiterate my view that the OP should have been aware that at that time of the evening a damp and potentially slippery floor was a distinct possibility and should have exercised an appropriately higher level of caution.

I'm not saying that the employer is not responsible and that a claim will fail, but I don't think it's necessarily as clear cut as you seem to believe.

dickydonkin

agrinnall wrote: »

It may be my fault for confusing things earlier but you seem to be thinking that the OP slipped as a result of something that should not have been on the floor, whereas in fact it's clear that the floor had been mopped (i.e. removing any contaminants).

If there was no spillage in the first place - there would have been no mopping - and subsequently, there would have been no accident. The immediate cause of the accident seems to be the wet floor caused my the mopping procedure, but there will be the underlying cause as to why the floor was contaminated in the first place.

As we seem to all agree (based on the OP's version of events), the floor is regularly wet in the area the accident occurred so there is obviously a problem. This could be down to leakages or operations in the vicinity of the door.

If the initial source of spillage can be addressed, then there would be no need to use the mop - and that is the point I am trying to make.

I totally accept that spillages in a commercial kitchen occur frequently, but minimising spillage and dealing with the contamination properly can - and does reduce the risk of slipping.

Let me give an example of how NOT to mop up a spillage.

Someone drops an egg on the floor resulting in a mess covering about a square foot. Someone comes along with a wet mop and bucket of water to clear up the residual yolk.

I can guarantee that you will now have a wet area of floor around a square metre - making the floor more hazardous than when the egg was dropped - oh, and for good measure, lets add a tripping hazard - the A frame slippery floor sign - and for belt and braces protection, a piece of cardboard to cover the wet area!

I have seen these signs placed on the top of stairs - they are a hazard in themselves - absolutely useless - and don't get me going on covering wet areas with cardboard or a deconstructed cauliflower box!

Small areas of contaminated floor should be 'dry mopped' i.e. - in the egg scenario, pick up the broken egg with some paper towel and wipe up the residual mess with a damp cloth and remove excess moisture again with a dry cloth/paper towel.

It's so easy.

Perhaps the OP could shed more light as to why the floor is wet for prolonged periods - or why mopping up procedures are very frequent. And something else just crossed my mind - as there are 'witnesses' to confirm that an A board was in place, I wonder where it actually was. If it was behind the door the OP went through, then it would have been ineffective as the OP would not have seen it - not that they are effective anyway - and moreso in this scenario as it was a phantom version!

DavidF

You "may" have a reasonable case for compo. Your employer does not want you to explore this avenue. IF you have an injury that is "serious" ie you have required medical treatment then it should most certainly be entered into the accident book for a start. I really don't know what happens in commercial kitchens and the like but I work in the "deadliest" sector in the UK (Construction) - If we have an accident that requires any sort of treatment then it's straight into the accident book....As are near misses. If there is a more serious incident ....say for example someone breaking a bone or suchlike then as a matter of course the HSE are usually informed and turn up on site to review with the client running the site that ALL appropriate H&S procedures are in place....If there is any issue here then the firm/firms/client are reported for having a breach and the HSE can then launch legal proceedings against those responsible.....
So in the case of a person being injured on a construction site - as long as they have taken all reasonable care as they too as an employee have a legal duty to ensure safety of themselves and others then from experience claims can and are raised - At least on well run sites there is documented evidence trail that will assist EVERYONE weather it is the worker or the person being claimed against.

bod1467

dickydonkin wrote: »

If there was no spillage in the first place - there would have been no mopping - and subsequently, there would have been no accident.

I think this is a little disingenuous ... I'd expect kitchens to have a routine hygiene procedure that included mopping the kitchen floor after the end of service, when everything else is being cleaned, regardless of whether there'd been any spillages or not.

What MIGHT be a factor is if this mopping had been carried out earlier than usual.

unforeseen

It also needs to be considered whether OP was wearing suitable shoes for being in the kitchen. I.E. non - slip

agrinnall

bod1467 wrote: »

I think this is a little disingenuous ... I'd expect kitchens to have a routine hygiene procedure that included mopping the kitchen floor after the end of service, when everything else is being cleaned, regardless of whether there'd been any spillages or not.

Exactly, that's the point I've been trying to make.

bod1467 wrote: »

What MIGHT be a factor is if this mopping had been carried out earlier than usual.

Or not done very well so that (as I've said previously) there were puddles on the floor rather than it just being damp.

What we really need is the OP to come back and clarify some of these things, but I have this feeling that won't happen.

dickydonkin

bod1467 wrote: »

I think this is a little disingenuous ... I'd expect kitchens to have a routine hygiene procedure that included mopping the kitchen floor after the end of service, when everything else is being cleaned, regardless of whether there'd been any spillages or not.

What MIGHT be a factor is if this mopping had been carried out earlier than usual.

YOU might EXPECT kitchens to have a routine 'hygiene procedure' that includes mopping a kitchen floor, the reality however, is that is not necessarily the case.

I can assure you - and my experience is based on implementing a health and safety management system in a very large catering operation incorporating numerous retail catering outlets and around 20 commercial kitchens that it is very dangerous to assume anything in this respect.

I don't know what health and safety expertise or qualifications you have, but it seems whatever I am posting, you seem to dispute everything. If you are going to dispute my comments, back it up with facts.

The reality is my posts are based on legislation, good practice, undertaking numerous accident investigations and actual incidents - many similar to the OP's.


Just to answer your post, I insist on a procedure that as soon as anything is dropped/spilled on the floor, they deal with it there and then.


Fortunately, all of our kitchens and outlets have non- slip flooring, however, this procedure is adopted regardless as slips can still occur regardless of what the surface is underfoot. It is just simply good practice and the right thing to do to prevent injury to yourself and colleagues.

You are correct that end of shift cleandowns are (or should be) carried out, but that does not preclude the staff from clearing up any mess they have made during the course of their work.

I can assure you that a lot of catering outlets and commercial kitchens do not have a stringent cleaning/housekeeping routine in place (check the prosecutions from your local EHO) so I would state that your assumption that a kitchen will have a 'cleaning/hygiene' procedure in place, is way off the mark.