Mark Carny on Italian bank collapse

Thrugelmir

Quasar wrote: »

Besides, they are all keeping a close eye on the UK at the moment

Nothing much happening here. Business as usual.

Quasar

globalds wrote: »

I would have thought there would have been some complaints about potential losses on what were considered safe bank bonds sold to the public ?

Glad you had a nice holiday ...Next thing you will tell us you had sunshine as well

Seems that although we couldn't do anything in the football . The UK has won one thing off Italy.

Why the UK is now officially crazier than Italy

I've never really compared various countries' political styles, because of cultural variations - even small ones can result in major differences on the political world stage.

There are always some complaints on the banks over there. Besides, even legitimate complaints don't always translate into full blown national disasters. There is nothing, at the moment at least, that is comparable to the crisis of 2008, which Italy did weather reasonably well as its banks have always been well capitalised, as it is a country of savers (a habit I have retained while abroad).

Quasar

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Nothing much happening here. Business as usual.

I should hope it is, just three weeks on from the referendum, but the game is long. Let's hope it's a win-win for all our sakes.

Conrad

mwpt wrote: »

I don't particularly think any one thing is to blame. I know people love black and white narratives, and particularly the villainous EU narrative, but I believe you are simplifying way too much.

The EU does not work as each nation is misaligned and won't compromise sufficiently. For it to work as a United States, Germans would have to except the pensions of Greece, Italians accept the taxes of Denmark, but they're all pulling in different directions but bound by a single currency which for example stops Italy from devaluing and recovering fast as the Asian Tigers did Two years after thier big late 1990s crash

By all means keep believing but think it will fall apart

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/state_aid/overview/index_en.html

https://next.ft.com/content/c753b5d0-474d-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-05/the-eu-s-inflexible-bank-rules-risk-an-italian-brexit

Come on, stop asking me the same question to which you'll get the same answers. It's all in the links that you eventually made me get for you.

We've established already that the EU regulates bank bailouts. You are just showing me articles that repeat the same thing.

But you're claiming more than that. If you'd like to limit your claim to "the EU regulates bank bailouts" then I'm prepared to accept that. But if you are still claiming further that some EU regulations prevented Italy from imposing capital ratios on her banks or some other measures to "shore up the economy" then I would like to see which regulations these were.

I know it is inconvenient for you that someone doesn't accept stuff at face value but it's important to be accurate.

Thrugelmir

Quasar wrote: »

I should hope it is, just three weeks on from the referendum, but the game is long. Let's hope it's a win-win for all our sakes.

Game is always long. Only politicians play the short game.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

We've established already that the EU regulates bank bailouts. You are just showing me articles that repeat the same thing.

But you're claiming more than that. If you'd like to limit your claim to "the EU regulates bank bailouts" then I'm prepared to accept that. But if you are still claiming further that some EU regulations prevented Italy from imposing capital ratios on her banks or some other measures to "shore up the economy" then I would like to see which regulations these were.

I know it is inconvenient for you that someone doesn't accept stuff at face value but it's important to be accurate.

I've not said that the EU stopped Italy from doing any of that.

I did say that the UK chose to operate in that way and the others apparently chose not to, otherwise they wouldn't be in the position they are now where they are unable to deal with the situation due to EU regulation. The EU regulation has got it wrong and now they're going to have to row back on it.

That's all I've been saying.

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I've not said that the EU stopped Italy from doing any of that.

I did say that the UK chose to operate in that way and the others apparently chose not to, otherwise they wouldn't be in the position they are now where they are unable to deal with the situation due to EU regulation. The EU regulation has got it wrong and now they're going to have to row back on it.

That's all I've been saying.

According to you. According to Conrad and probably a lot of others, the EU regulation is precisely correct. Let the banks fail and come out stronger (note: my opinion on this is mixed).

Besides, you are still in a subtle way trying to imply that the EU was somehow responsible for the lead up to the situation. You are now softening that stance somewhat but you still use language such as "others apparently chose not to". You can say it: Italy was responsible for Italy's decisions. Greece was responsible for Greece's decisions. The EU doesn't have to be the underlying reason for every woe in the world, nor even every woe that takes place inside the EU.

TrickyTree83

mwpt wrote: »

According to you. According to Conrad and probably a lot of others, the EU regulation is precisely correct. Let the banks fail and come out stronger (note: my opinion on this is mixed).

Besides, you are still in a subtle way trying to imply that the EU was somehow responsible for the lead up to the situation. You are now softening that stance somewhat but you still use language such as "others apparently chose not to". You can say it: Italy was responsible for Italy's decisions. Greece was responsible for Greece's decisions. The EU doesn't have to be the underlying reason for every woe in the world, nor even every woe that takes place inside the EU.

If you scroll back through the posts on this you'll see what I originally said. I don't think I've ever advocated for letting the banks fail, ever. My thoughts on that are that it's morally acceptable to do that, it's a grim reality to let it happen, therefore it's the least bad option to bail them out.

EU regulation is stopping them (Italy) from dealing with this as they would like and that it would appear the Eurozone countries chose not to take the same path as the UK after the 2008 crash or Deutsche Bank, Commerz, etl al would all be in a better position than they find themselves now.

Whilst I agree with the free trade, co-operation and to a certain extent the freedom of movement of labour (not people) I simply cannot see how tighter integration is going to make things any better for countries who are culturally, socially, economically different.

Thank god we never joined the Euro.

mwpt

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

If you scroll back through the posts on this you'll see what I originally said. I don't think I've ever advocated for letting the banks fail, ever. My thoughts on that are that it's morally acceptable to do that, it's a grim reality to let it happen, therefore it's the least bad option to bail them out.

EU regulation is stopping them (Italy) from dealing with this as they would like and that it would appear the Eurozone countries chose not to take the same path as the UK after the 2008 crash or Deutsche Bank, Commerz, etl al would all be in a better position than they find themselves now.

We'll see how it unfolds but they must shoulder the blame, I don't agree with scapegoating it to the EU, whatever that term means in this context.

Whilst I agree with the free trade, co-operation and to a certain extent the freedom of movement of labour (not people) I simply cannot see how tighter integration is going to make things any better for countries who are culturally, socially, economically different.

Thank god we never joined the Euro.

I am unsure about this. Euro has worked out well enough for some countries. It could have worked out very well for us actually.

But more personally it would have been great for me because we would have actually got a proper house price correction in 2008 like Europe did (incoming: cells disagreement).