A question if youve never worked

Muscle750

Im not in this postion however after a discussion at work we wondered if someone has never worked and basically lived on benefits all their possible working life what if any OAP pension are they if any getting when they hit 65. Not for someone who cant work throu disabilty etc but for someone who basically cant be bothered and manages to get the rent council tax etc paid how do they stand?
Just doesnt seem right if the working population have to have x years contributing NI etc to see theirs

ischofie1

I'd imagine they'd get the level that pensioners get when they're on pension credit, about £150 ish.
I'd agree that it doesn't seem right but the alternative of "culling" them isn't too palatable either. ��

PeacefulWaters

Many benefits trigger credits towards other benefits and pension accrual.

bigfreddiel

It's probably quite hard work finding out what you can claim for and keeping up with changes and also adjusting your lifestyle to maximise your benefits. Probably just as productive and time consuming as a job at minimum wage level, and more than likely requires patience and considerable skills in understanding the various benefits and how they affect each other.

Well that's one take on the matter, or you cold be a checkout operator and earn just as much, or less even. Cheers fj

Malthusian

bigfreddiel wrote: »

It's probably quite hard work finding out what you can claim for and keeping up with changes and also adjusting your lifestyle to maximise your benefits. Probably just as productive and time consuming as a job at minimum wage level, and more than likely requires patience and considerable skills in understanding the various benefits and how they affect each other.

The problem is not being unable to do minimum wage work, the problem is that it isn't worth it when you are taxed at up to 90% (after loss of benefits). Better to work on the black market and keep claiming benefits.

As for the OP's question - as PeacefulWaters said, many working-age benefits such as Employment and Support Allowance pay National Insurance credits. So if you did manage to stay on them throughout your whole working age lifetime you should end up with a full NI record and receive the State Pension. If you didn't Pension Credit and other benefits should still keep you off the streets.

atush

Your OP suggested using the systm to best effect.

Better to work on the black market and keep claiming benefits.

Is called benefit fraud and brings a jail term. Which means you dont need any benefits and pension credits? And I assume you'd lose your housing too if you are in the slammer?

jamesd

Muscle750 wrote: »

if someone has never worked and basically lived on benefits all their possible working life what if any OAP pension are they if any getting when they hit 65. Not for someone who cant work throu disabilty etc but for someone who basically cant be bothered and manages to get the rent council tax etc paid how do they stand? ... Just doesnt seem right if the working population have to have x years contributing NI etc to see theirs

Like people who have a full working life they will need enough NI credits to qualify and after that minimum extra years up to 35 will increase the state pension they get until it reaches about £155 a week, the flat rate state pension maximum level.

A person who does not sign on as looking for work and who is not unable to work due to a medical condition will not get NI credits so won't build up any state pension entitlement at all. There's one main exception, a person who is getting child benefit paid in their name will get tax credits while that is being paid, whether they are male, female or other.

A person who is signing on as looking for work will get NI credits and provided they get enough credits in a year that year will count for state pension entitlement. Various government schemes can make it harder to do this without actually doing at least something that looks like seeking work or courses.

A person who is in prison doesn't get NI credits while there and will also have most benefits suspended while inside.

Beyond the state pension which people get as a benefit having paid in, there are means tested benefits. The most important of those is the Minimum Income Guarantee which is delivered through Pension Credit. This is around the flat rate state pension level and is what a person who is eligible will get if they don't have at least that much in state pension. On top of that they will probably also be eligible for Housing Benefit and a range of other benefits. For a person who is long term unemployed this would normally mean a rise in income when they reach Pension Credit age, which is the current state pension age for women.

Pension Credit is currently £155.60 for a single person or £237.55 for a couple. The flat rate state pension is currently £155.65 per person so a couple could get £311.30 a week, a good deal more than Pension Credit.

So the broad answer to your question is that such a person will get a little bit less than a person who paid in but will not be able to keep much of any other savings they might have, instead they will be at the means tested benefit level for the rest of their life. This is because as a society we've decided that there's a minimum that we want anyone to have to live on here, regardless of how much or little they paid in, just because we don't like to see too many people starving on the streets.

Better not to plan to live on such relatively low levels of income even if housing and other means tested benefits help. But people can and do live on it.

Malthusian

atush wrote: »

Is called benefit fraud and brings a jail term. Which means you dont need any benefits and pension credits? And I assume you'd lose your housing too if you are in the slammer?

True. But if your starting point is on the breadline and you have nothing to lose...

The question I was responding to was not "what is best" but "why do people live on benefits long-term when keeping up with the system takes as much effort as a minimum-wage job".

greenglide

when keeping up with the system takes as much effort as a minimum-wage job

I am sure that if someone actively wants to stay on benefits and doesnt want to work, no matter what, it doesnt take as much effort as going out to work, five days a week, come what may.

I suspect the the number of people who actively take this route must be very small but it is something people fall into after a period of unemployment and inability to find work they can actually do?