Democracy and the Economy

michaels

I have lived through several political ages:
1) In the second half of the 70’s Labour was in charge governing at the behest of the unions, the public realised a change was required and in 1979 voted for Thatcher.
2) 18 years later the Tories had run out of ideas and turned to internal squabbling and sleaze, again the electorate did what was best for Britain and voted for an inclusive social democratic labour party.
3) Eventually the Labour party was overcome by its leaders own hubris, Tony Blair and his illegal wars and Gordon Brown’s attempt to build a socialist client state. Again the public voted them out, although still wary of the Tories they came up with a very sensible coalition.

4) Along the way MPs caught out with padding their own expenses were forced to resign or were voted out.

During that time the EU has seen expenses turn into a gravy train and never had its accounts signed off as free from graft. And yet MEPs are almost impossible to vote out as they are on party lists. And has power changed hands from a centrist ‘grand coalition’? Of course not - jobs and pork for the boys flows very nicely and there is no way, whatever misery the EU rulers bring (and it is not inconsiderable with the Euro economic disaster) that the EU governing coalition will ever change.

And for this reason alone, that is why I am voting out.

cells

I am still undecided but I do feel the economic argument should be the primary one. Its no good shooting ourselves in the foot with maybe a 2-4% GDP fall to save a 0.5% EU members fee.

Kohoutek

michaels wrote: »

During that time the EU has seen expenses turn into a gravy train and never had its accounts signed off as free from graft. And yet MEPs are almost impossible to vote out as they are on party lists. And has power changed hands from a centrist ‘grand coalition’? Of course not - jobs and pork for the boys flows very nicely and there is no way, whatever misery the EU rulers bring (and it is not inconsiderable with the Euro economic disaster) that the EU governing coalition will ever change.

And for this reason alone, that is why I am voting out.

The thing about the accounts is a myth. The accounts have been signed off every year since 2007.

As someone with many years of my working life left, I will be voting remain.

westernpromise

michaels wrote: »

3) Eventually the Labour party was overcome by its leaders own hubris

I'd say it was overcome by its own sleaze and that this set in long before it was actually elected.

tincans6

[QUOTE=michaels;70874191

During that time the EU has seen expenses turn into a gravy train and never had its accounts signed off as free from graft.[/QUOTE]

Same old Tories, same old Lies.

Here is what the European court of auditors actually said.

"the EU’s accounts in 2014: “present a true and fair view of the EU’s financial results for the year … We were therefore able to give a clean opinion on the reliability of the accounts".

They found that there is material error (>2%) and spending was subject to error of 4.4% - mainly at the national level.

Error can mean fraud, but that's not the majority.

An example of error would be the farm subsidy payments in the UK, which is a shamble but administered by the UK and not Europe.

Here is the link.

http://www.eca.europa.eu/Lists/ECADocuments/auditinbrief-2014/auditinbrief-2014-EN.pdf#page=13

Shame on you for peddling the same old nonsense.

michaels

Thank goodness - material errors but not necessarily graft

tincans6

Kohoutek wrote: »

The thing about the accounts is a myth. The accounts have been signed off every year since 2007.

As someone with many years of my working life left, I will be voting remain.

Fairly depressing that someone who's opinions and posts I respect is reduced to peddling this nonsense.

Doesn't exactly reflect well on 'Cambridge economics graduates' does it ?

tincans6

michaels wrote: »

Thank goodness - material errors but not necessarily graft

I think your in danger of going 'full CLAPTON' today Michaels.

Sun is shining, talk a walk and some fresh air.

Multiple threads about why you personally are going to vote Leave, ain't going swing anyone's vote - unless they are swooning over your ABC1 status and top decile earnings.