Unsure how to proceed with lowell

pinchingpennies

Hello,

I'm hoping for some advice on how to deal with Lowell.

Long story short, over the last 3 years has been chased for 7 different debts for accounts that he has either been incorrectly linked to or that have been set up/taken out without his knowledge (ex partner).

Of these debts, i have managed to have five written off by sending very simple "prove it" letters to which the responses have been things such as, "we bought this in good faith...we have decided to not take this further...will remove from credit file immediately".

This time is not quite as easy (maybe because the others were provident, catalogues etc and this is O2), and i'm not sure what to do or say next.

Waffle aside (thanks for bearing with me), this is a brief summary of the communications between lowell and myself so far (letter form):

1. Lowell says husband owes them £203 for an O2 debt
2. I send a prove it letter
3. Lowell sends what can only be described an incomplete screen shot void of all acc numbers/names etc.
4. I tell lowell that they did not satisfy my request and to provide me with the info i requested and for their complaints department info.
5. Lowell say that an internal check was completed and this debt is husbands because he lived at the address at the time it was taken out. They say they are not obligated to provide an agreement as it was a service agreement and not a credit agreement. They advise we send a SAR to O2. They omit the complaints department info i asked for but added a kind p.s you also owe us for an orange account to the tune of £543 (assuming i'm going to have the same nonsense for that account too).

I obviously need to start the new debt from the beginning of the cycle but basically, both were last paid within 6 years and defaulted within 6 years also.

We haven't admitted liability and do not intend to do so. My husband hasn't ever been a customer of either phone company and has held his own vodafone account for at least 10 years so we don't want to be paying nearly £800 for something that isn't anything to do with him.

If anyone has any advice as to what the next steps should be i'd be really grateful.

Thanks.

sourcrates

Hi,

NEVER pay someone else’s debt. It is up to the debt collection agency to prove that the debt belongs to you, by sending you written proof. Ask for this immediately, and do not allow them to make you feel threatened or bullied. If you ask for proof, they must provide you with it. Paying any money towards a debt will be viewed as an acknowledgement of it and you will no longer be allowed to dispute it.

Unfortunatly they are correct in that service agreements do not require any kind of credit agreement, use of the phone, or sim, is taken as acceptance of the agreement.

If the letter or call is from a debt collection agency and not the original creditor, try to get in touch with the company who sold the debt to the agency. They will be able to match up their records with specific details such as addresses and date of birth, which will distinguish you from the real debtor. They will be able to confirm to you that is not your debt. Ask them to send you written confirmation of this and if possible to the DCA who contacted you.

Do not act rashly and get annoyed. Stay calm. Politely request all further communication regarding the debt is made in writing, then compile any proof you have that the debt is not yours. Do not send documents away, unless the collection agency has sent you some written proof. Keep copies of any letters you write. ALWAYS send everything recorded delivery. If you are returning letters addressed to the debtor, open them and send then, also recorded, back to the return address on the envelope flap.

pinchingpennies

Thank you for your quick reply.

Lowell claim they sent proof that is evidence enough but honestly, what they sent, that they passed off as "statements" i could have made myself on excel. It had absolutely no info on it at all other than a few dates of payments made and totals.

Ok, so i read a bit about this SAR that i need to send to O2, can i use a standard template that i can find online somewhere? Also, i read that they have 40 days to respond, when does the 40 days start... date of my letter, date received etc?

In the meantime, should i write to Lowell and say that i wish for them to halt collection procedures while i wait for this information from O2?

Thanks.

sourcrates

You can SAR 02, it will cost you a tenner.

The 40 days is just a guideline, there is no penalty if it takes longer.

Tell Lowell what you are doing yes.

Use this template letter :

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Personal-information-under-the-Data-Protection-Act-%28sole-name%29.aspx

But to be honest, it's still up to Lowell to prove this debt to you, you should let them do all the donkey work.

I would send this to Lowell :

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/sampleletters/Pages/Complaining-to-debt-collection-agencies-that-you-do-not-owe-the-debt-%28sole-name%29.aspx

pinchingpennies

Thanks for the links. I would be more inclined to let them prove the debt but we are planning to buy a house around 3 years time and am dubious to let it drag on and pose further problems i.e ccj etc (if they are even allowed to do that?)

I will firstly send a variation of the complaints letter that you posted and am going to request all the information Lowell hold on this account, date of purchase etc to support my case. Lowell haven't cooperated thus far, so what exactly are they expected (from a legal standpoint) to provide on request?

With regards to the other debt (orange £543) that they mentioned, i looked closer at the credit file this morning and see that it has a default balance of £266 but the total is now £543! Also, it defaulted in march 2011, so assuming the last payment was made around dec 2010, would that become statue barred shortly given that there has been no additional payments made, no acknowledgement of liability or any communication about the debt until they added it on their letter the other day. Just curious as to whether i should even engage in nonsense conversation with them about this if it might fall off so to speak so soon.

I really appreciate your help so far, so apologies for so many questions, and thank you.

Marktheshark

Make an official complaint to 02 in writing by certified post
State that you have no contract with 02 and challenge them to prove otherwise.
State you will not deal with collections agencies or any third party contractor as again you have no contract.
State the complaint
State what resolution you require
State that if no reply is made in 14 days then the letter serves as a deadlock notice and the matter will be forwarded to the appropriate Ombudsman service as their agents are making legal threats.
State they are liable for all actions of their agents and a cease and desist harassment warning is also issued to 02 and this means they must cease harassment until they can prove a contract exists.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-to-complain-to-the-ombudsman-about-a-mobile-phone-provider

sourcrates

For a mobile service agreement, proof would be in the form of airtime bills, clearly displaying the name, address, account, and mobile numbers, and, (hopefully) the method of payment.


As I said before, you do not actually sign an agreement anymore, use of the phone, or sim card, is considered acceptance of the contract, so you should be asking Lowell to provide airtime statements, all the time making it clear they are obliged to provide you with the proof you are asking for, or no debt exists.


As regards the alleged Orange account, you are correct in that it will become statute barred later this year, let that go for as long as possible, if Lowell become insistent, or look like they may get legal, then send the provit letter, that should give it time enough to get past the SB date.


Be aware that Lowell's first response to most statute barred letters is that the time clock runs from the default date, so isn't SB.
When in truth, the clock runs from the cause of action date, or, when ever the last payment or written acknowledgement was made, usually a good few months before the default date.


You need to keep your whit's about you when dealing with companies such as Lowell.

Marktheshark

I have never seen a mobile phone company who will allow a contract service agreement without either a signed service contract or online declaration.
The initial formulation of the contract is what they would need to prove and usage of the service.

Lowel are interloping on the debt, deal only with 02

sourcrates

Marktheshark wrote: »

I have never seen a mobile phone company who will allow a contract service agreement without either a signed service contract or online declaration.
The initial formulation of the contract is what they would need to prove and usage of the service.

Lowel are interloping on the debt, deal only with 02

Its usually an online declaration nowadays, I have never signed an agreement for any of my phone contracts, not since the mid nineties when they were first introduced, you had to sign something back then, but in recent years, if you order online, all it says is "use of the phone, or sim card, constitutes acceptance of the contract".


It may be different if you join a network from one of there retail outlets, I don't know.

Stigy

sourcrates wrote: »

Hi,

NEVER pay someone else’s debt. It is up to the debt collection agency to prove that the debt belongs to you, by sending you written proof. Ask for this immediately, and do not allow them to make you feel threatened or bullied. If you ask for proof, they must provide you with it. Paying any money towards a debt will be viewed as an acknowledgement of it and you will no longer be allowed to dispute it.

Not identical, but similar, I was in a situation whereby my ex-wife applied for payday loans in joint names and sometimes only in my name. I recognised one or two, but not the others. As far as I was concerned she should be jointly responsible for the shared debt, but being a woman, was able to change her name back to her maiden name quite easily, and soon re-married after we divorced. That basically meant that she was untraceable. She even had a debt in her married name that I was named on (bank account) which I was being chased for. Long story short I paid off all the debt in the end, but only because I didn't want to risk a CCJ. I negotiated with DCAs and got reductions here and there, but the sad truth is, I ended up paying for what largely had nothing to do with me.

The final straw came when one Payday Loan debt came and bit me which I didn't recognise. When asked how it was applied for I was told it was just by using my email address. I admittedly didn't check emails that often back in 2010 or there about but wish I had done now! I argued this one till I was blue in the face but folded eventually and paid at a reduced rate. This struck me as a fundamental flaw in obtaining a loan, as the only signature retired was an electronic one, and the rest was completed online. I only paid it off so I could avoid further action, even if the likelihood of this wasn't that high. Had it been a few years ago I'd have fought tooth and nail for what was right, but now I'm debt free and credit worthy again, so I guess every cloud has a silver lining.

Sorry if I've gone off on a tangent here, but I do feel it's relevant to an extent. If I was the Op here, and the female part of a marriage, it should be an awful lot easier to bounce what's not owed by you back to the DCAs.