When did the London gentrification start?

Sapphire

Thrugelmir wrote: »

In the 70's we never ventured further north than Streatham after 10pm. Brixton was a no go area.

Still the case today, as far as I'm concerned. I know St Reatham (like a lot of similar areas in London) is being plugged by estate agents, but really, it is still very much a slum area with little to offer, despite having some very nice houses and a decent park. It's not a place I've ever felt safe in (as a woman), let alone in the evenings.

I think at the rate things are going with the noticeable overcrowding there is compared to even a couple of years ago, people are going to start leaving London. It's no longer as nice a place to live in as it was around 10 years ago, what with gridlocked traffic, noise, pollution, and far too many people. Because London is becoming rather more unpleasant than it used to be in recent times, I think people will start fleeing it again before long.

It's a victim of its own success, unfortunately…

Malthusian

It's no longer as nice a place to live in as it was around 10 years ago, what with gridlocked traffic, noise, pollution, and far too many people.

London had all those things 10 years ago. Probably 100 years ago come to that.

Sapphire

Malthusian wrote: »

London had all those things 10 years ago. Probably 100 years ago come to that.

It's much worse than it was 20 and even 10 years ago. Variously, I worked in the Covent Garden, Bond Street, Edgware Road and Tottenham Court Road areas for long periods before going freelance. Travelling around was much easier (though granted, never pleasant), and there were far fewer people everywhere, and much less pollution. I did find the general atmosphere nicer, and far less 'generic' than it is now, when everything is tending to be made to look the same (huge glass windows showing the same old 'upmarket' tat, etc., and large and ugly, block-like buildings being built all over the place, and marketed as 'luxury apartments' for investors). In general, I'd say London is losing its character to appease the god of money, though things like the museums are still brilliant. I can well see people fleeing the place…

When you come to 100 years ago, that's another matter entirely. There was far more poverty then than there has been during the last few decades – though I believe the rookeries of Tottenham Court Road, with people dying on the streets, were gone by then. Nonetheless, there was massive poverty in the East End and other places…

mwpt

Sapphire wrote: »

It's much worse than it was 20 and even 10 years ago. Variously, I worked in the Covent Garden, Bond Street, Edgware Road and Tottenham Court Road areas for long periods before going freelance. Travelling around was much easier (though granted, never pleasant), and there were far fewer people everywhere, and much less pollution. I did find the general atmosphere nicer, and far less 'generic' than it is now, when everything is tending to be made to look the same (huge glass windows showing the same old 'upmarket' tat, etc., and large and ugly, block-like buildings being built all over the place, and marketed as 'luxury apartments' for investors). In general, I'd say London is losing its character to appease the god of money, though things like the museums are still brilliant. I can well see people fleeing the place…

It is changing it's character. It will have done this continually since the first person settled next to the river.

We all look back on old times with nostalgia. This seems to be part of human nature for whatever reason. I recognise it in myself, a lot. I look back on old days in London with fondness and I'm sure in 10 years time I'll do the same about today, it's just the way things work. That doesn't mean that objectively speaking London is getting worse for the people currently enjoying it and moving here like mad. It's still a great city, I love it here.

the_flying_pig

I think definitely the expansion of 'the city' (using a very broad definition), so i suppose the ' big bang' in 86 is a relevant milestone, but the 'roaring nineties' and then noughties credit boom saw more jobs growth.

Loads of super well-paid jobs that often require people to stay in the office till really late. No kind of life staying in the office till really late and then thinking about slogging off to some distant 'stockbroker belt' (sounds quaint, doesn't it). Also more families where both mum and dad work (the Nash equilibrium of a game where banks will lend double the amount they lend if you count both incomes) - nursery or school pick up and drop off just doesn't work with a long commute.

Sapphire

mwpt wrote: »

It is changing it's character. It will have done this continually since the first person settled next to the river.

We all look back on old times with nostalgia. This seems to be part of human nature for whatever reason. I recognise it in myself, a lot. I look back on old days in London with fondness and I'm sure in 10 years time I'll do the same about today, it's just the way things work. That doesn't mean that objectively speaking London is getting worse for the people currently enjoying it and moving here like mad. It's still a great city, I love it here.

Sure, I know London is an ever-changing city. However, I prefer it to change for the better, not to become some generic, overpopulated construct that'll end up as a polluted slum, with a no longer visible history, which no one will want to visit or enjoy living in – though there should be plenty of space in the massive tower-block slums of the future that developers are so busy building.

I'm glad you love it. I love the river, the history and archaeology, the museums and the art galleries. Beyond that, London is losing its identity and attractions for many.

Conrad

There was scene from early Fools n Horses where Delboy and Rodney were contemplating the great change happening across the water, as they gazed at the re-development of waterside dock areas. I would think it was made around 1983?


Also do keep in mind many areas were long gentrified such as Hampsted, Winchmore Hill, Mill Hill, Southgate, the posh side of Enfield and so on. To me and my kin all of this is/was always, London.

Conrad

the_flying_pig wrote: »

Loads of super well-paid jobs that often require people to stay in the office till really late. No kind of life staying in the office till really late and then thinking about slogging off to some distant 'stockbroker belt' (sounds quaint, doesn't it). Also

Actually a good number of my neighbours do exactly this and we live in a village that is a 15 min drive to a market town station, 40 odd miles from London.


A lot of them did live near the office when young, but moved out when they started a family. I don't know how they endure the commute tbh.

chewmylegoff

Conrad wrote: »

Actually a good number of my neighbours do exactly this and we live in a village that is a 15 min drive to a market town station, 40 odd miles from London.


A lot of them did live near the office when young, but moved out when they started a family. I don't know how they endure the commute tbh.

I always hated commuting until I had children. Now, 45 minutes on the train is bliss, the only opportunity I get to sit down and read a book, or watch an episode of something on the generic tablet device.

In addition to this, prior to having kids I never understood the attraction of sitting in the pub on your own and just having a quiet pint by yourself.

Sapphire

chewmylegoff wrote: »

I always hated commuting until I had children. Now, 45 minutes on the train is bliss, the only opportunity I get to sit down and read a book, or watch an episode of something on the generic tablet device.

In addition to this, prior to having kids I never understood the attraction of sitting in the pub on your own and just having a quiet pint by yourself.

Travelling by train can be bliss (even if you don't have children), because it gives you a chance to read, but not if you have someone yapping loudly on a mobile phone near you for long periods of time, or if there is a crying child anywhere in the carriage, or if it is hot and there is no air conditioning. First class is OK, though.

Ditto sitting in the pub alone, particularly if you are overlooking a beautiful river view, etc.

NB I was coming back to London by train from somewhere the other day (a Sunday). A youngish couple sat down opposite me and talked fairly quietly/played on their mobiles. However, the man suddenly rang someone, and his voice became five times as loud. I nearly hit the roof with the shock of the noise. I glared at him and the woman was obviously a bit embarrassed, but he continued yapping – talking about business at long length when he could have said the same thing in two minutes. Then, a couple of days ago I was on a crowded train to Waterloo and for the entire journey the woman opposite was talking loudly about her personal life. In the end one of the passengers (actually an American) asked her politely but loudly to stop. It's that sort of thing that really gets to me – the complete lack of consideration for other people.