38 Years of full contributions

bigfreddiel

You must realise that the state pension is just a type of Ponzi scheme. It relies on people paying to payout those who joined earlier. So people like you or me who cannot gain any more state pension even tho' we still contribute help to keep the scheme running. Thankfully once you reach state pension age you no longer pay any NI.

Cheers fj

hyubh

bigfreddiel wrote: »

You must realise that the state pension is just a type of Ponzi scheme.

A fraud which pays out returns to earlier investors purportedly out of profits from a legit money-making activity, but in reality from just the capital invested by later investors...?

bigfreddiel

hyubh wrote: »

A fraud which pays out returns to earlier investors purportedly out of profits from a legit money-making activity, but in reality from just the capital invested by later investors...?

Yeo, you got it, but when the gov does it, it's okay!

Basically if we stopped paying in NI there would be no money to payout. The state pension is not backed up by a fund of money or investments, it's a payment funded scheme.

Cheers fj

SandLake

grey_gym_sock wrote: »

it's not that simple for tax years up to 5 april 2016. after that date, it is simpler - i.e. once you know your entitlement up to 5 april 2016, if that is under £155.65, then adding later years will make up the difference, at 1/35 of £155.65 per year. but buying earlier years will not - in some circumstances - increase your entitlement at 5 April 2016 at all. and that may well apply to you, from your figures. does you statement have a figure for COPE?

Yes, I came accross COPE in my pension forecast for the first time today. My forecast is £155.65, COPE is £42.06 - £197.71 in total - but, and I may be wrong here - the COPE figure is already incorporated into my company pension estimate.

Paul_Herring

bigfreddiel wrote: »

. Thankfully once you reach state pension age you no longer pay any NI.

I plan on not paying any NI long before that...

SandLake wrote: »

but, and I may be wrong here - the COPE figure is already incorporated into my company pension estimate.

COPE is the government's estimate of what it thinks you might, with certain presumptive assumptions, get from the NI rebates you've had over the years.

With a tail wind.

And, possibly, a full moon.

If those rebates went into a company DB scheme, then, unless there's a line item separating them, it will be included in the final figure. Beware you don't double count it.

Rebates going into DC schemes were usually separated from regular contributions, called "Protected Rights," and were 'ring-fenced' such that they had to be used to pay for things like a spouse's pension, but that requirement is longer the case - they are effectively merged into the main pot without distinction. Again, if the phrase 'protected rights' isn't describing part of your fund on statements, beware you don't double count it.

LXdaddy

Yes it's disheartening to think that all my NI contributions that I paid are not really sitting in a box ready to pay my state pension. Instead they were used to pay previous retirees and it's my children who will pay me my pension.

grey_gym_sock

SandLake wrote: »

Yes, I came accross COPE in my pension forecast for the first time today. My forecast is £155.65, COPE is £42.06 - £197.71 in total - but, and I may be wrong here - the COPE figure is already incorporated into my company pension estimate.

yes, it's part of what of what your company pension will pay. i mentioned it because it's also involved in the calculation for state pension (as a deduction).

but actually, i was over-complicating it. with 35+ years NI, there is definitely no point in paying voluntary NI contributions for years up to 5 april 2016, because that can't increase your entitlement at that date. but for years from 6 april 2016 onwards, it may be worth paying voluntary contributions, if your state pension entitlement is still short of £155.65, and if you don't have enough automatic contributions (e.g. from employment) to make up post-2016 years.

grey_gym_sock

LXdaddy wrote: »

Yes it's disheartening to think that all my NI contributions that I paid are not really sitting in a box ready to pay my state pension. Instead they were used to pay previous retirees and it's my children who will pay me my pension.

you shouldn't be disheartened by that. there's no real virtue in locking up money in a metaphorical box.

put aside question of money for a moment, and think in terms of real resources. for instance, where will the food you'll eat after you're retired come from? will it be produced by later generations after you retire, or will you live exclusively on tinned food produced before your retirement date? will you ride in buses/taxis/whatever which are being driven by people who are still working after you retired, or by people who stopped working when you did? will you receive medical care from doctors who are still working, or can the knowledge of doctors who were working before you retired somehow be stored up and used to treat you without the need for anybody to actually do any work after you retire?

clearly, there is no option but for retired people mostly to consume goods and services produced by the labour of later generations. no method of saving for retirement can get out of that.

we have to rely on future generations looking after us when we are old. but we can do a few things for them to make it easier for them to do that: anything that increases the productive capacity of the economy - by building infrastructure, deploying new technology, increasing skills, etc.

but note that anything which merely involves shuffling money around (or storing it in boxes), without increasing the productive capacity of the economy, can't help at all. shuffling money around can certainly be useful, but only as a means to an end.

BobQ

bigfreddiel wrote: »

You must realise that the state pension is just a type of Ponzi scheme. It relies on people paying to payout those who joined earlier. So people like you or me who cannot gain any more state pension even tho' we still contribute help to keep the scheme running. Thankfully once you reach state pension age you no longer pay any NI.

Cheers fj

It really is not helpful to hijack a thread started by someone asking for advice on a specific issue in order to make political points (IMHO)

GunJack

The easiest way of looking at it is:-

ignore any COPE figure on your statement.

When you retire, you'll get your SP and your Occupational/Workplace pension(s) - that is what you have earned and will get.

The whole COPE thing is, to put it bluntly, b0ll0cks