BHS 'could file for administration' threatening 11,000 jobs on Monday

antrobus

vivatifosi wrote: »

A couple of papers now reporting that the Pensions Regulator is after Philip Green for part of the shortfall. That's the right thing to do.....

I'd say that was pretty much a rip-roaring certainty. The PR has previously gone after a Russian company over Carrington Wire. They wanted the Russians to stump up for the whole deficit, but settled for half. Or something like that.

Not that it will make any difference to the scheme members. Rather it will reduce the amount of money that the PPF has to stump up.

roddydogs

Shirt in Primark, £7, in BHS £25, similar, made in Bangladesh. say no more but then again its the same in Marks & their still going.

antrobus

tincans6 wrote: »

You missed the £214m dividend paid by BHS group Ltd in 2003

Well, the FT missed it.:)

Let me have a look.

Yup. The DT says that BHS paid a £57m dividend in 2003 and a £157m special dividend, and Mr Green got £201m of it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2868182/Green-nets-201m-from-BHS-payouts.html

It was in the following year that ownership was transferred to Mrs Green. Of course, BHS was making a profit in those days.

kabayiri

It was said on the news this morn that the pension fund was in credit by £5m in 2001.

That's some turnaround to go into deficit by £500m. I know market conditions have been challenging, but still.

On a technical note, will the PR pursue Mr Green or his wife Tina? As far as I am aware, wasn't she the beneficiary of the dividend money?

michaels

antrobus wrote: »

Well, the FT missed it.:)

Let me have a look.

Yup. The DT says that BHS paid a £57m dividend in 2003 and a £157m special dividend, and Mr Green got £201m of it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2868182/Green-nets-201m-from-BHS-payouts.html

It was in the following year that ownership was transferred to Mrs Green. Of course, BHS was making a profit in those days.

But was it taking a pension holiday because the market was buoyant? There seems to be something asymmetric about pensions funds - the value is bound to fluctuate over time but when they are over-funded it seems the company can basically take the gain as extra profit and then when they are underfunded it has to come up with a token plan to fill the gap over a long period....I know BA as a company was often described as a pension company invested in aviation....

stator

I wonder if he sold the business to Retail Aquisitions simply to try and pass the buck of the pension shortfall or whether he actually thought they would be able to survive.
It does seem like they didn't have much of a hope and I wonder who actually financed the loan that kept them going for 3 months.

michaels

stator wrote: »

I wonder if he sold the business to Retail Aquisitions simply to try and pass the buck of the pension shortfall or whether he actually thought they would be able to survive.
It does seem like they didn't have much of a hope and I wonder who actually financed the loan that kept them going for 3 months.

Isn't the talk of the £80m that he is offering to put in being £40 to the pension fund and £40 of a loan owed to him being written off...

As I said earlier it looks like a Rover / Pheonix / BMW deal which was mostly done so that BMW didn't take the bad publicity and cost of closing it down themselves.

Andy_L

michaels wrote: »

But was it taking a pension holiday because the market was buoyant? There seems to be something asymmetric about pensions funds - the value is bound to fluctuate over time but when they are over-funded it seems the company can basically take the gain as extra profit and then when they are underfunded it has to come up with a token plan to fill the gap over a long period....I know BA as a company was often described as a pension company invested in aviation....

AIUI the rules limit the amount of excess that the pension fund can have. IIRC it dates back to the old days when asset strippers would buy a company with a large pension surplus, shut it down & pocket the surplus.

antrobus

kabayiri wrote: »

It was said on the news this morn that the pension fund was in credit by £5m in 2001.....

Here's a useful infographic that tracks the value of the BHS pension fund.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/apr/25/bhs-philip-green-family-millions-administration-arcadia

kabayiri wrote: »

...That's some turnaround to go into deficit by £500m. I know market conditions have been challenging, but still.....

A lot of it will be because BHS is 'insolvent', and thus the pension fund will now be valued on a buy-out basis. The deficit was £226m this time last year; now it's £571m.

kabayiri wrote: »

..On a technical note, will the PR pursue Mr Green or his wife Tina? As far as I am aware, wasn't she the beneficiary of the dividend money?

Neither. Probably Arcadia and the Jersey company, Taveta or something?

Generali

kabayiri wrote: »

It was said on the news this morn that the pension fund was in credit by £5m in 2001.

That's some turnaround to go into deficit by £500m. I know market conditions have been challenging, but still.

On a technical note, will the PR pursue Mr Green or his wife Tina? As far as I am aware, wasn't she the beneficiary of the dividend money?

There may be scope to pursue Mrs Green as presumably her dividends aren't like a regular dividend to you or me. She is clearly a related party.