Notice of Enforcement - Jacobs agents

florincmf

Hello everyone,

My story it's really complicated and moving here without having too much knowledge regarding laws and procedures made it that way. Here it goes, After I have occupied a double room for 5 months with my girlfriend and moved out, a year later I received at my new address a council tax bill for the previous address. The Council exempted us from paying it due to my evidences of multiple occupancy but since then they sent me at least 4 council tax bills with different periods and amount and just now I have received a similar one like the one from a year ago. They put my account on hold and today I have received a notice of enforcement from Jacobs in which it says the following:

Date of notice: 21/04/2016
Agent reference number xxxxxx
You owe money to Council of York - £817.11
Debt £817
Compliance fee £75.00
Total to be paid by 28/04/16 - £892.00

On the back of it: If don't pay, an agent will visit your premises and there will be an additional fee of £235.00. If we proceed to sale stage, there will be a further fee of at least £110.00.

I am kindly requesting your help regarding this matter please. The council seem to be not interested enough about this as they have changed their decision based on nothing for at least 5 times in a year. Any help would be much appreciated and sorry if it was posted in a wrong section

Regards,

Florin

sourcrates

Hi Florin,


Its really important that you do not let any bailiffs' enter your property, they cannot break in, or force entry, but they can walk in through an unlocked door, so just be wary of this.


I suggest you give National Debtline a call tomorrow, (the number is in my signature).


They will be able to advise you about how to deal with this.


You really need a sympathetic ear at the council in order to sort this matter out, as multiple bills can be very confusing.


York city council are not the easiest of people to deal with, in my experience.

florincmf

Hello Sourcrates and thank you for your reply

I have been this year to the Council for more than 10 times and every single time I had to explain the whole situation over and over. The last answer that I have got from there was that they are dealing with this matter and it takes a bit longer because the landlord hasn't paid the council tax for few years and he has swapped names around this whole time. I might be wrong, but the only intention that the council has is to make me pay as I am more willing to keep my name away from debts than the landlord is. Maybe their only purpose is to get their money somehow and they are not very interested about from whom they are getting it. I was thinking to talk with someone from the financial department from the council and also with e legal adviser to see if my evidences are good enough to exempt my name from the bill. Also, I might consider paying the amount, the full amount to stop adding up fees from Jacobs and then to sue the Council for their lack of evidences and for changing the decision so often regarding this matter.

Once again, thank you for taking your time to read my post!

Regards,

Florin

CIS

Where there multiple resident in the same property for the period in question ?.
What did the occupancy agreement you signed ?
Did the council explain why they didn't determine it to be a HMO for the period in question ?

Unfortunately multiple bills can be occur where a landlord provides information on multiple occasions as the council are under a duty to make amendments and issue a revised bill. Some landlords can be pains the backside and cause big headaches.

If you can provide the above then I may be able to help you further.

CIS

Maybe their only purpose is to get their money somehow and they are not very interested about from whom they are getting it. I was thinking to talk with someone from the financial department from the council and also with e legal adviser to see if my evidences are good enough to exempt my name from the bill.

You're very unlikely to find any general legal advice from someone who understands council tax - In 10 years of doing the job I doubt I ever came across a solicitor who understood council tax ( I generally needed to correct them on the basics as they were trying to work in a field they had not knowledge of).

florincmf

Hello CIS and thank you for helping me out with this

I will try to explain the situation with as many details as possible. I moved in a double room with my girlfriend on 5th of October 2013. She was student at that time and I was a professional. In the house there were already 2 more girls living in each of the other bedrooms. We gave to the landlord £400 as deposit and then we did pay him £135 a week in cash. Later on he gave us a tenancy agreement to sign which doesn't specify anything else apart from the address of the property, the amount and the starting date which is 5th of October and some legal terms, many pages. No one from the house had a tenancy agreement but in order to get our right to live here, we needed proof of address so he told us to sign this to get it. The situation gets more complicated as this house has 3 double bedrooms upstairs, kitchen and bathroom and the living room from downstairs was used as a seller room for dozens of cases of beer and wine which belong to the landlord using them for his shop. We also had a cctv camera in the house, in the lobby from downstairs so he can see if someone is gonna steal anything from the living room. Everything seemed to be a bit suspicious, not to mention that he came in the house whenever he wanted because he needed access to that living room. Anyway, back to a year later, I got the council tax bill on our names (no discount applied on it even if my girlfriend was a student) even if we never got a bill in this period while we occupied the room, not from electricity, gas, council, nothing. The amount was £817 a year worth of tax. I went to the Council straight away, they scanned my tenancy agreement and exempted us from the council tax bill. Months later I got another bill with £386 to be paid for those 5 months when we stayed there. I went to them again and asked what happened and they said that new evidences have been brought and I asked what evidences and they said that they can't disclose. I am 100% that there is nothing else that we signed apart from the tenancy agreement that I handled to the Council initially when they have exempted us from the liability of paying it. Anyway, months after this bill has been issued, I got a notice with a final reminder for the amount of £817 which sent me back to the point where I have started a year ago. I went to Council several times, they asked me for evidences that I had one room. I told them that I can pass to them my phone as there are many text messages between me and the landlord where it is specified that I am gonna leave the house on 4th of March. There are text messages from him agreeing with that, telling me to leave my room empty and also he is talking about the other people from the house, naming them, telling me how much they are paying. After I have sent the screenshots, I haven't heard anything from the council even if they had my phone number and email address. I went there again and they told me that they build up a case because this landlord has been swapping names around and they try to figure out what happened. I got my peace of mind after that and after 2 months I got this Notice of enforcement.

Sorry for the long post, I just tried to explain the situation as its best.

Your help is much appreciated and thank you for your valuable time also!

Regards,

Florin

CIS

We gave to the landlord £400 as deposit and then we did pay him £135 a week in cash. Later on he gave us a tenancy agreement to sign which doesn't specify anything else apart from the address of the property, the amount and the starting date which is 5th of October and some legal terms, many pages

It doesn't say 'room XX' or similar ?. Do you know if they were aware of who was living in the other rooms ?

On the balance of probabilities, from what you've said, I would say it was a HMO. What I would do next is this:

Write a letter to the council outlining an appeal to the Valuation Tribunal against the decision to hold you liable and why - you held a rental interest only in part of the property and not the whole property. State that you believe on this basis the landlord should be liable as per 'The Council Tax (liability for owners) regulations 1992 (as amended) and that therefore you no longer liable under section 8 of the Local Government Finance Act 1992.

They should respond within a couple of months of this - either agreeing the change or rejecting it. If they reject it you can then make a formal appeal to the Valuation Tribunal within a further couple of months.

There is no requirement in law for action against you to be suspended whilst undergoing appeal (unless it was against a penalty that had been applied) however the council, as best practice, should consider suspending the action (DCLG guidance - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210478/Guidance_on_enforcement_of_CT_arrears.pdf).

The valuation tribunal has the powers to consider the whole apect of the situation and make a decision based on the 'intent' of the agreement - if it was intended to only be for a room then they can rule on that case (even if the rental agreement is badly worded or incomplete).

Feel free to ask if you need more or send me a PM. Always happy to help.

florincmf

Thank you again for helping me out with this matter!

In the tenancy agreement it doesn't say anything, there is no room specified. Also, when I went to the Council after I got the first bill, they asked me to send copies of this tenancy agreement and also to tell them when I moved in/out, who I was staying with in the house (I did provide names) and also where my room was situated. I have done all I was asked to and provided copies of this tenancy agreement. Someone answered to me with this:

"Thank you for your email.

I have reviewed the account history at the above address and can confirm the following.
Your name has been removed from all historic liability, and there is no outstanding account or debt in your name.
With any house of multiple occupancy, all liability for Council Tax should be in the landlord’s name – not that of the tenants.

Kind regards,
Luke"

Then, few months later I got a notice through post informing me that this is the last reminder before my account will be passed to bailiffs so back from where I started from, with an outstanding bill of £817.

I want to mention that there is nothing else signed or anything like that between me and the landlord apart from the scanned tenancy agreement that I have provided. So, I can't find an explanation why after someone reviewed the tenancy agreement took the decision above (my name been cleared out of any outstanding bills) and few month later it turned against me again, to 180 degrees based on the same evidence.

After this, went to Council and I was asked to send screenshots of text messages which I have done and nothing has changed, it's even worse. I will take your advice and I will keep you update with anything regarding this matter if you are willing to advice further on.

Your help is enormously appreciated and now after this roller coaster I have been through I am a bit more optimistic about this.

Regards,

Florin

CIS

It's hard to say without knowing what evidence the council used but it's unusual to reverse a decision that's been made to class a property as a HMO as it's not something most councils will do without a lot of proof.

The fact that they've reversed their earlier decision in some ways is a good thing as it means they're admitting that either they've made an error or that information is so unclear that it's had to be revised several times. This to me would add cast doubt on the reliability of any decision.

If you need anything more feel free to ask.

AnotherJoe

florincmf wrote: »

I have done all I was asked to and provided copies of this tenancy agreement. Someone answered to me with this:

"Thank you for your email.

I have reviewed the account history at the above address and can confirm the following.
Your name has been removed from all historic liability, and there is no outstanding account or debt in your name.
With any house of multiple occupancy, all liability for Council Tax should be in the landlord’s name – not that of the tenants.

Kind regards,
Luke"

I suggest you write to Luke/ his dept enclosing a copy of his letter and the bailiffs letters pointing out that his words have not been followed through by the rest of his organisation and please can they rectify this highly stressful situation by contacting the bailifffs and having the action called off, you give them 14 days to respond and state that after that if there is no change you will then begin a small claims court action.

I'm suggesting the latter just because it may help them escalate it internally.

florincmf

I will send them a letter letting them know that I will make an appeal to the Valuation Tribunal regarding the decision and I will also print his answer and specify that there is nothing else apart from the tenancy in between me and the landlord signed/written that could have change the decision and I would like to know under what circumstances this decision has been turned to 180 degrees. What I have done since a year ago, was to reply to the email in order to keep it as a storyline and not to send/get dozens of emails which might have created confusion and also to let them see all the previous ones and all the information. The thing is that after Luke took that decision, (me being exempted from the council tax bill) I got few months later a council tax bill, like Luke's decision hasn't been taken in consideration and no other answer to my emails. Every time after sending an email, I had to chase it several times over a period of weeks/months to get an answer. My guess is that whoever took the decision, hasn't checked the emails and Luke's decision and the same thing happened now again with my case being passed to the bailiffs.

I don't know under what circumstances I can ask what further evidences have been brought by the landlord that might have changed this into making me liable for the council tax. As I have said, there is nothing else apart from that tenancy agreement so if he has brought something, it means that it's not a genuine evidences and the problem gets deeper. Also, when I asked if there was something that have been added up to the case that the landlord may have brought, they said that they can't disclose this information.

Many thanks for your help with this matter

Regards,

Florin