What is Barclays Bank Base Rate?

foreversummer

Barclays/Woolwich have this on their Intermediaries Website, so they are still encouraging advisers/brokers to reassure customers there won't be a change.

"How can I re-assure my customer that Barclays Bank Base Rate (BBBR) will not be different from the Bank of England base rate?

Barclays Bank Base Rate records go back to 1932 when it was 2%. Since the Bank of England was granted independence in 1997 the BBBR has been exactly the same every day and ignoring a few historic timing differences, BBBR has always followed the Bank of England official rate, although strictly speaking it is an independent rate."

Link: http://www.personal.barclays.co.uk/BRC1/jsp/brccontrol?site=pfs&task=homefreeopenplanwealth&value=10289&target=_self

Foreversummer

MarkyMarkD

Thanks, foreversummer.

If simmotech and others want to raise their blood pressure unnecessarily, they are welcome to get stressed about this theoretical risk.

I will keep my low blood pressure and not worry, thanks.

simmotech

Hi MarkyMarkyD,

Earlier you said "I still don't know why you are getting het up. For Barclays mortgages, BBBR=BBR. That's all you need to know.

Lenders CANNOT restate the basis of your mortgage. What you have stated in your KFI is what matters."

1) I did not get a KFI (when did KFIs become mandatory incidentally?)
2) The Financial Ombudsman is taking the view that if the Offer Document states BBBR and not BoE then that is a legal contract and supersedes any information to the contrary on the website.
3) The fact that I queried what BBBR meant on the offer letter by telephone and was told BoE and referred to the website that stated at the time that "...BBBR should be taken to mean BoE..." does not count for anything because I can't prove it.
4) The Ombudsman adjudicator has also said "I must explain that the links you provided me in support of your complaint contain information, personal experiences and opinions of other individuals. Unfortunately I cannot consider this information in my assessment and can only consider the specifics of your complaint in reaching my opinion"

I am going to take this to the final step with an Ombudsman but it looks like I will either have to convince him/her that
1) The links I provided that show Barclays stance of the definition of BBBR where they pertain to tracker mortgages should be allowed to be taken into consideration;
and/or
2) That the Offer Letter cannot/should not be taken in isolation but the definitions being promoted at the time should also be taken as part of the overall contract.

Does anyone have any non-website evidence, e.g a KFI, that that they would be willing to scan and upload? Especially if it is from around mid 2006.

MarkyMarkD

If you took out your mortgage in 2006, then you MUST have been given a KFI unless your mortgage is non-regulated (e.g. Buy-to-Let or Commercial).

My mortgage from Barclays was taken out in 2008 (IIRC). The KFI and Offer document both refer to BBBR, but the conditions attached say something like "wherever this contract refers to BBBR it means BBR".

That is why, personally speaking, I am not remotely concerned by the non-existent risk that BBBR <> BBR.

In any case, if Barclays were going to break the link, they'd have done it by now, surely. And they won't, because they have products on both sides of their business (assets as well as liabilities) which pay rates linked to BBBR.

simmotech

Thanks MarkyMarkyD

Unfortunately, I do not have KFI or any attached conditions with "wherever this contract refers to BBBR it means BBR". Maybe because the mortgage was a switch and not new??

I have a two page Request to Change Mortgage Type document and an Offer Document with the BBBR rate (which was queried of course and I was reassured it meant BoE for trackers and referred to their website which confirmed that)

(Barclays initiated all this BTW, they were closing their Woolwich Offset Together product and all customer had to switch to an alternative Barclays mortgage FOC - I naturally chose what I was told was the identical product just without the Offset facility)

Both Barclays and the Ombudsman are claiming that what is in the Offer Document is the contractual agreement and "supercedes any information which may have been available on the website".

If Barclays weren't going to break the link then why have they changed their wording to show they don't guarantee matching BoE?

I see why you are not concerned because you have the wording in your conditions but I am stuck with a web page from an archive site; a telephone conversation which is impossible to prove and an Ombudsman Adjudicator whose interpretation of a binding contract seems to be "if its not written on the page then it don't count"

Cheers
Simon

getmore4less

simmotech wrote: »

(Barclays initiated all this BTW, they were closing their Woolwich Offset Together product and all customer had to switch to an alternative Barclays mortgage FOC - I naturally chose what I was told was the identical product just without the Offset facility)

Did barclays not have a suitable offset product? or did you not want one?

We got Woolwich mortgage in a Barclays openplan offset the only bit missing from the together product is I think is allowing people not on the mortgage to offset.

simmotech

cf252 wrote: »

I have just received a letter from The Woolwich which states:

"I confirm that we use the terms "Barclays Base Rate" and "Base Rate of the Bank of England" interchangeably to mean the same thing."

If anyone ever has any problems with Barclays/Woolwich tracker mortgages and needs to take their case to the FSA then I can provide a copy of this letter to help.

Regards

cf252

Sure could do with a scan of this letter!

The Ombudsman Adjudicator has rejected my case on the basis that the offer letter only mentions BBBR.
- Telephone calls to query this and being told same as BoE do not count.
- The general declarations about Tracker mortgages following BoE do not count.
- Forum thread information/experiences/opinion do not count.
- Web page archives (their 2007 glossary for example) do not count.

If you don't have a Mortgage Offer or KFI that specifcally says BoE then your are BBBR as far as the Adjudicator is concerned. The Mortgage Offer/KFI supercedes all of this other information.

I have one shot with the real Ombudsman at a hearing.
What I need is a copy of a KFI or any other Barclays documentation that prove that Trackers were being sold as BoE rate.

Can anyone help me here. Thanks.

simmotech

TechnoBoy wrote: »

I just dug out my Mortgage Offer from last year on my lifetime tracker, it states clearly in plain English that all references should refer to the Bank of England Base Rate :beer:

Although no doubt someone will be along shortly to say I read it wrong so I've scanned and attached the evidence here:

I have shown the exact text you show in your post to the Ombudsman Adjudicator as it was on their Glossary page back in 2007. Unfortunately he says that Offer Letters/KFIs supercede any other terms.

Any chance of getting a scan of the full page/pages of the T&C part of your Offer Letter for me to show to the Ombudsman?

Cheers
Simon

TechnoBoy

simmotech wrote: »

I have shown the exact text you show in your post to the Ombudsman Adjudicator as it was on their Glossary page back in 2007. Unfortunately he says that Offer Letters/KFIs supercede any other terms.

Any chance of getting a scan of the full page/pages of the T&C part of your Offer Letter for me to show to the Ombudsman?

Cheers
Simon

My "full page" is signed and dated specifically for me with details such as my bank account etc within the text so doubt this'll help you.

simmotech

My case with the Ombudsman is not going well, I don't think they are asking the right questions to Barclays and Barclays are just taking the !!!! with their answers as you can see below.

I don't (and never did) have the full terms and conditions and KFI that the rest of you seem to have since it was not a full mortgage/remortage. Barclays refuse to provide copies of what the rest of you seem to have had at that time, 2006, and also from 2001 (another part of the case). They are also filibustering the Ombudsman about these documents (see last question below). Both Barclays and the Ombudman are just ignoring this thread, the video of their very own TV advert and the whole file of information I have collected - now an inch thick!

Unless I can come up with something in the next week or so, the Ombudsman's provisional findings will become final therefore I am willing to pay £20 to anyone who can send/email me a photocopy of their T&Cs/KFI/whatever from 2006 which shows the infamous BoE clause. If it contains any personal information, just redact it out on the copy. Grateful for any help!

Cheers
Simon

Email from Case Review Adjudicator

Dear Mr Hewitt

Thank you for your e-mail, which has been added to your file. I have attached a copy of the questions that Barclays has been asked during our investigation together with its responses.

Yours sincerely

XXXXX XXXXXXX

Case Review Adjudicator

· Mr Hewitt has supplied a number of website links relating to the information Barclays was giving about its base rate (BBBR) around 2007. I understand that you have already received these in an email from Mr Hewitt when he originally brought his complaint. I am also attaching a further link which he has recently sent to us relating to the advertising of the rate. The ombudsman has asked for Barclays' comments on its advertising of the rate zzz.forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1456333

Theattached website has no affiliation to Barclays, therefore, I do not think it is appropriate to comment.
· I am also attaching a link to a Barclays advert which aired in 2007 which appears to show that it was marketing its rate as tracking the BoE base rate. Please can I have your comments on this
zzz.tellyads.com/show_movie.php?filename=TA2927

Again, this website has no affiliation to Barclays and therefore I do not think it is appropriate for me to comment.
· Does Barclays accept that in 2007 it said its rate was the same as BoE base rate and did it market its products a tracking BoE, rather than its own rate? When did it stop doing this?

As stated in my e-mail dated6April to Mr XXXXX, Barclays Bank Base Rate (BBBR) has tracked the Bank of England Base Rate(BofEBR)since the start of the 20thCentury and there hasnot, to ourknowledge,been an exception to this.
· Was it likely that in 2006 Barclays staff would have told enquiring customers that its tracker mortgage tracked BoE rate?

Our staff would have informed any customer making an enquiry that a Barclays Tracker Mortgage tracked BBBR, which would be disclosed inthe Key Facts Illustration and the Mortgage Offer.
· Please can Barclays also provide a complete copy of the September 2001 edition of the terms and conditions of the mortgage.

Unfortunately, we do not have any additional information to the 2001 Mortgage Terms and Conditions. However, as I have said previously, the Conditions applicable to Mr Hewitt and Ms Storm’s Mortgage is attached to their Mortgage Offer, which was attached to mye-mail of 6 April. Condition 7 states:“The interest rate charged shall always be 0.75% above the Barclays Bank Base Rate.”

While I appreciate Mr Hewitt & Ms Storm’s concerns, the interest of their Tracker Mortgage hasbeencharged at BBBR, which is the same as the BofEBR. BBBRis a rate set by Barclays Bank PLC, which typicallyfollows the BofEBR but it is not guaranteed to do so. I do not see the relevance of Mr Hewitt & Ms Storm’sconcernsin this respect because the interest rate of their Mortgage has moved in line with each change to the BofEBR. The fact the Bank uses its own rate (BBBR) is for commercial purposes, in view of anyunforeseeneventuality that may occur within the property market.