Citing Specific Planning Permission Requests at POPLA

pould

Hi folks,

I'm helping a friend with a "you walked off the site so give us £100" PCN.

I've done a search with our local planning department and am now getting copies of ALL the planning permission requests and judgements for the relevant site which are related to parking. If these (as I suspect) demonstrate that no planning permission has been granted for the signs, is it good practice to provide this as evidence at POPLA? Half of me wants to wait till we get to court and the other half wants to get a POPLA decision in favour and then to "violate" the terms of the parking myself so I can then launch a fraud action when they send me a PCN *knowing* that they haven't got planning permission.

There are missing signs on entrance and the whole "if you leave" wording on the miniscule signs is itself a legal minefield, but I think the planning permission is an open / shut issue for leverage after the appeal.

The PPC in question is UKPC.

Thoughts?

Castle

Have you read this:-
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/parkingeye-and-planning-consent-or-lack.html

Basically if the PPC wants to use POFA it has to met the 4th condition as set out in paragraph 12 of Schedule 4; in particular 12(2). Whether anybody at POPLA will understand this is an entirely different matter.

pould

Thanks - I've seen that. Interesting discussion.

*IF* POPLA rules that a car park signage doesn't have the valid Planning Permission, what do we think of a claim for fraud or blackmail if another PCN was issued?

Coupon-mad

POPLA won't even look at that. Not a POPLA winning point.

Did your friend carefully appeal as 'keeper' to a windscreen PCN? If so, presumably UKPC forgot to serve a NTK (happens all the time).

Also, tell POPLA that UKPC have shown no proof of leaving the site nor even set out anywhere for a driver, information about the boundary of the 'site'.

Either of the above could win. As could no landowner authority.

pould

Hi CM,

I'm afraid I only got involved when the NTK had already been issued as I would have advised them to appeal as Keeper as you indicate above.

There's plenty of good evidence on the keeper's side. I don't think the NTK complies with PoFA 2012 (no time parked stated etc), the photo of the signage is inadequate and the wording illegible, I have a photo of the site with one entrance with no signage and no photographic evidence of entry or exit of the driver. On top of that we can throw the usual Locus Standi etc.

Just looking for ways to leverage the POPLA win!!!!

pould

One more question.

I'm assuming that a planning permission request for signage would be specific and obvious? I've viewed the planning applications for the site in question for the last 10 years and though there are requests for property usage to change (industrial to commercial) and for parking spaces to be created, there is no request for signage for parking terms and conditions.

Fruitcake

pould wrote: »

One more question.

I'm assuming that a planning permission request for signage would be specific and obvious? I've viewed the planning applications for the site in question for the last 10 years and though there are requests for property usage to change (industrial to commercial) and for parking spaces to be created, there is no request for signage for parking terms and conditions.

Signage requires Advertising Consent, whereas I believe ANPR cameras require Planning Consent.
I believe lack of the former is a Criminal offence, not civil.

pould

Where would I check advertising consent?

pould

I've spoken to the local planning department - advertising consent would be in the same place as planning consent. Excellent. No advertising consent for the UKPC signs in question.

Fruitcake

pould wrote: »

I've spoken to the local planning department - advertising consent would be in the same place as planning consent. Excellent. No advertising consent for the UKPC signs in question.

Complain to the DVLA, BPA, Trading Standards, the shop/landowner, local press.

Basically create a shizzle-storm pointing out that UKPC have already been done for doctoring time stamps on photo' "evidence" and are now committing another criminal offence.

Obviously also complain to the planning department and make sure they give UKPC a rollicking. You want to know what steps they are going to take to ensure UKPC don't continue to break the law, and you want to be informed if they apply for retrospective advertising/planning consent (so you can campaign to get it rejected.) Ideally you want the signs removed and the criminals booted off site.