Do you want less tax or more spend? Poll Results/Discussion

sinizterguy

teddyco wrote: »

Ticket prices in London for both the underground and commuter rails are the most expensive in the world. Even more expensive than New York, Tokyo and Rome, and there is no excuse for it.

The tube network is the most expensive in the world. And the least efficient in Europe. Puts things into perspective.

Not a situation I want my hard earned money going into.

Gobosly

Looking at these posts, we are definitely a nation where the glass is half empty, rather than half full. According to some the place is anarchy, crime is rampant, we're taxed to the hilt and country has gone to the dogs!

Clearly this is none of the above is true when reflected on balance, but I suppose our slightly sensationalist press a perhaps to blame?

Anyway, one point I would make regarding private medical insurance (PMI) is that it is NO substitute for the NHS. Some people have touched on this, but I have one of the top PMI medical insurances available (through my work); and whilst I don't deny it can be useful to get to the front of some operation queues, the list of exclusions at the back of the policy reads like war and peace. In short anything that is re-occurring or long term is not covered (after a while). Let us be honest when talking about such things, particularly if it supporting peoples arguements for not paying national insurance. It is no substitute.

Does not surprise me that most people want a cut in their tax level. Mind you, I bet they would be first in the queue to protest when their local primary school faces closure, or their local GP surgery closes, followed by monthly bin collections.

Do people realise that a 20% cut in tax spending is a collosal cut? It is not something that will go unnoticed. I reckon the main problem is that a lot of people don't connect with the tax burden, public spending equation. Perhaps they actually believe the politicians when they tell us that they can cut taxes, but still maintain public services???? This is simple mathematics. If anyone does that, they are borrowing to balance the books; which will always come back to haunt you in the end (if they are lucky a different government will have the problems by then).

Quite frankly I would have expected more informed debate from a MSE forum. Very disappointed!

rogerj

Would we mind paying more for health, education, transport?
Probably not, but you seem to have left out that bottomless pit of public spending that has bled and impoverished this country for generations.
There has been only one year in the last century [in 1964] when a British soldier has not died on the field of battle.

We are a nation permanently at war.

Now consider the cost of the war in Iraq... £7 billion
I]ANGER AT £7bn COST OF WAR By Toby Helm, Telegraph Chief Political Correspondent[/I

And if the present two wars -Iraq and Afghanistan- are already lost, there's always Iran waiting for the bombers. All paid for out of taxation.

russellbarrett

they should be looking at what they do with our taxes and spend them more efficiently. when they've learnt to do that they can look at pushing more money into areas that need it and bringing tax down.
i drove past fourteen men fixing a traffic light yesterday. 13 men watching one man up a ladder doing all the work. that one example probably cost more than what i pay in income tax in a year.
it infuriates me as i see things like that on a daily basis and when i point it out to people they just chuckle at them...that's our money thats being wasted!

socialists_r_scum

There is room for tax cuts and to increase spending on services which are needed by UK citizens IF the govt cuts out all the unnecessary waste like overseas aid, free healthcare ,benefits, housing and education given to those who should not be in the country in the first place. I am sick of paying over 40% of MY earnings to the treasury to support those who want something for nothing, the lazy, the workshy and the ever increasing numbers of freeloaders and scroungers who head for our shores to milk the system and the taxpayers, lets start putting our own house in order before we try and help anyone else , it is a national disgrace that drugs are rationed for our citizens on cost grounds, we must work longer for our pensions,millions cannot afford a house, yet we can spare billions to spend proping up basket case countries in the third world. Charity should begin and end at home.

Gobosly

Couldn't agree with you more about the financial cost of a very debateable war. Nobody mentioned at the time of considering the war what it would cost. I wonder how many people would have been for the war if they discovered it would put an extra couple of percent on their tax burden for a few years!

Gordon_the_Moron

The war isn't very debatable, Iraq was attacked without a UN resolution, whatever the reasons for doing so, at the time weapons of mass destruction, now that has been found to be a lie, deposing Saddam, regardless it was illegal. Not just that very very costly, in financial terms and more importantly in cost to human life.

I would like to see the services mentioned in the poll improved vastly (all of them) but I don't think pouring money in is the answer, improving them is, top heavy organisations full of halfwits who don't know what they're doing at the top don't improve with 20% budget increases, they improve with better management. I sincerely believe if someone like Martin Lewis ran each of these organisations they could run as well as they do on less than half their budgets.

I'm not voting on this as I would not want spending on any of the things mentioned cut but I would like to see a cut in tax and spending on other ridiculous stuff eliminated, and the war was stupid, costly, immoral and illegal.

I'm a bit tipsy so cut tax on alcohol by 136% whilst your at it but rant over
Da Moron

Mr_Mumble

Couple of general points:

1. The individual generally spends money in a far more efficient manner than the state. The individual is looking after their own self-interest. Governments are spending other peoples' money and so are not as concerned about the money being spent wisely

2. The wars are not particularly expensive. Membership of the EU costs Britain a net £10bn a year. The NHS's failed computer system has supposedly already had £20bn sunk into it. The current public sector pensions liability is £960bn. I'm happy paying for the armed forces, they're the only reasonably efficient part of the state!

and specifics:

Gobosly wrote:

Anyway, one point I would make regarding private medical insurance (PMI) is that it is NO substitute for the NHS.

PMI is specifically for the treatment of acute illnesses, it isn't supposed to cover chronic illness. The government stifles competition in providing for chronic illness because of the NHS. There would be plenty of targeted medical insurance for chronic illness if employees and their employers weren't paying a combined 25% of salary in National Insurance!

Does not surprise me that most people want a cut in their tax level. Mind you, I bet they would be first in the queue to protest when their local primary school faces closure, or their local GP surgery closes, followed by monthly bin collections.

Funny how its never the quangos, traffic wardens, diversity officers or social workers who're for the chop but the essential services!

Do people realise that a 20% cut in tax spending is a collosal cut? It is not something that will go unnoticed.

20% is colossal and not quite realistic but there is no harm in aiming high (or low!). Depending on the state the US citizen can have an overall tax rate around 26% and Australia 28%. UK is now around 40%, there is a lot that can be cut without harming essential services.

I reckon the main problem is that a lot of people don't connect with the tax burden, public spending equation. Perhaps they actually believe the politicians when they tell us that they can cut taxes, but still maintain public services????

Of course this is possible. Do you think any local council is as efficient as any large company?

This is simple mathematics. If anyone does that, they are borrowing to balance the books; which will always come back to haunt you in the end (if they are lucky a different government will have the problems by then).

Quite frankly I would have expected more informed debate from a MSE forum. Very disappointed!

Gordon Brown is already borrowing a record amount of money, £32bn is the estimate for this tax year. Governments benefit from borrowing money since they pay debt back at a lower rate than anyone else.

Former_MSE_Lawrence

Results: This Poll Ran Between 4-11 September 2007. Do you want less tax or more spend?

With all the political shenanigans at the moment over tax versus spend, for a bit of fun I wanted to test people’s attitudes; assuming the system actually worked and changing spending actually changed service.

So your choice is to increase taxes and focus it on four popular areas: health, education, policing and transport (each 1% tax increase would roughly increase spending here by 2.5%). Alternatively you can opt for tax cuts which would have an across the board impact (as if you were doing that you’d be unlikely to focus spending reductions on the popular areas).

Which option would you prefer… for the poll’s sake assume increased or decreased spending actually increases/decreases service!


A. Taxes up 20% health, education, policing & transport spend up 50% - 5% (120 votes)
B. Taxes up 10% health, education, policing & transport spend up 25% - 6% (144 votes)
C. Taxes up 5% health, education, policing & transport spend up 12.5% - 11% (290 votes)
D. Taxes up 2% health, education, policing & transport spend up 5% - 15% (385 votes)
E. No Change - 13% (328 votes)
F. Cut taxes by 2%, spending cut proportionally across the board - 9% (230 votes)
G. Cut taxes by 5%, spending cut proportionally across the board - 11% (271 votes)
H. Cut taxes by 10%, spending cut proportionally across the board - 8% (198 votes)
I. Cut taxes by 20%, spending cut proportionally across the board - 22% (565 votes)

Total Votes: 2525 - Thanks to everyone that voted