Fixed term contract

boqq_2

I am on a three yr fixed term contract which is due to expire and I was offered a renewal just short of the 4 yr mark. Initially I was employed to cover for a member of staff who was trying out another job. After nearly four yrs, can they make me redundant and offer the job back to him?

jobbingmusician

The short answer is 'no'. This is because it isn't the person who is redundant, but the post. If the post no longer exists they can make you redundant, but they can't then offer this same post to someone else.

(Of course, there are creative ways for employers to get round this, but they are likely to have a weak case should they re-employ a previous employee on the basis of experience in the job which no longer exists, should you be minded to take them to ET.)

boqq_2

So their argument is that they haven't made my job permanent because this person's other post becomes redundant at the end of my next renewal and he has the right to my job back... Could that be true after 3yrs and the best part of the fourth. This is HR who are coming up with this not my management who claim they'd rather keep me in the post...

nightingalesgarden

You are on a FTC with an end date. Therefore your employer can choose to end this in line with the notice outlined in your contract of employment.

The fact that the reason that they wish to end the FTC is that they want someone else to do the job (as long as the reason isn't discriminatory) isn't a factor.

I am guessing that you are in the public sector (I could be wrong but they are very guilty of leaving people on FTC's and/or extending past four years - which is very naughty) - therefore there is likely to be a policy kicking around that will explain the situation with the post and any protection the permanent employee may expect while being seconded elsewhere - however this is unlikely to help you.

Unfortunately sounds like your Management like you but they are being told that they need to take this person back - as they only have budget for one role and the permanent person is entitled to it every ones hands are tied.

Final point - passing the four year mark doesn't automatically make you permanent - employers can extend FTC's past this point if they have a substantive reason for doing so - bad practice but it happens.

Guest101

nightingalesgarden wrote: »

You are on a FTC with an end date. Therefore your employer can choose to end this in line with the notice outlined in your contract of employment.

The fact that the reason that they wish to end the FTC is that they want someone else to do the job (as long as the reason isn't discriminatory) isn't a factor.

I am guessing that you are in the public sector (I could be wrong but they are very guilty of leaving people on FTC's and/or extending past four years - which is very naughty) - therefore there is likely to be a policy kicking around that will explain the situation with the post and any protection the permanent employee may expect while being seconded elsewhere - however this is unlikely to help you.

Unfortunately sounds like your Management like you but they are being told that they need to take this person back - as they only have budget for one role and the permanent person is entitled to it every ones hands are tied.

Final point - passing the four year mark doesn't automatically make you permanent - employers can extend FTC's past this point if they have a substantive reason for doing so - bad practice but it happens.

My understanding is that you are incorrect

After 2 years the OP gets full employment rights, which a contract cannot change. It would be a dismissal and would need to be 'fair'.

An employer cannot discriminate against a FTC based purely on their employment status

boqq_2

They've offered to renew my contract till his secondment ends. My contract by the way doesn't say anything about covering a secondment. My understanding of the law is that they need to prove redundancy after two yrs and they cannot as the post won't be made redundant. I can't believe the other employee will still have rights to the post after such a long time...

nightingalesgarden

My understanding is that you are incorrect

After 2 years the OP gets full employment rights, which a contract cannot change. It would be a dismissal and would need to be 'fair'.

An employer cannot discriminate against a FTC based purely on their employment status

We are both right. The only difference between the two contracts is that an FTC has an end date. That is the core issue here - nothing else matters - if the employer wishes to end the contact at the end date in the contract then that is fair as long as they follow appropriate process/give appropriate notice/make any redundancy payments due.

Guest101

nightingalesgarden wrote: »

We are both right. The only difference between the two contracts is that an FTC has an end date. That is the core issue here - nothing else matters - if the employer wishes to end the contact at the end date in the contract then that is fair as long as they follow appropriate process/give appropriate notice/make any redundancy payments due.

I agree, but I'm unsure that the result is automatic dismissal simply because the contract ends, even with accrued redundancy.


If it was then all employers would surely just use FTCs ?

ohreally

boqq wrote: »

I can't believe the other employee will still have rights to the post after such a long time...

The employer is correct, may be morally questionable but nothing preventing this continuing.

getmore4less

If you think you are doing a job and can't be removed from it for someone else to do read up on "bumping".


Even with the fixed term redundancy process needs to happen.