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ITV prog tonight on pensions and benefits
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missbiggles1 wrote: »I seem to have put my foot put in it (inadvertently, for once). I didn't mean to imply anything wrong with them (I went to a plate glass university myself) - it was the "Oxford, Cambridge, Warwick and York" point that seemed a bit odd.
Fair enough, didn't see that reference because it wasn't directly referenced in your original point.
Such things are never guaranteed, and peoples outcomes will vary dependent on what what they want, abilities, efforts, luck, teh wider economy and many other factors.
I often put my foot in it, but it's generally not inadvertent. I was speaking to a guy last year who had worked for the company and then set himself up independently, and come back for a project. Our discussion ranged into universities as we'd started on the same subject, he was a bit cocky and bullish and started boasting that he'd been to hull. It was brilliant apparently but the department had been shut down soon after him leaving. I commented that this was a bit unfair as it was, after all, one of the great universities, like Cambridge, Oxford etc.
He missed the reference and slight sarcasm in my voice but I found it amusing as did a couple of colleagues I spoke to afterwards.0 -
No reason to be dismayed. That percentage level is enough to provide for the gold standard of 66% income replacement all the way up to average income and some way beyond that. Provided you merely use stock market investments, get average returns and don't blow half the money by buying an annuity instead of using drawdown. Someone who wants to be dismayed need only use a typical pension calculator with the FCA's downrated growth spec and the inflation-linked annuity requirement.Average salary is £26,000 and the government's prescribed pension contribution figure is 8% once the AE phasing has finished in 2019.
This means on average the monthly contribution to a pension is going to be £173 (that's removing the qualifying earnings band, which would actually make it less!).
You have to go so far beyond 'average' to making a meaningful pension in retirement. The lower income people are understandably dismayed.0 -
missbiggles1 wrote: »You're assuming that most degrees are vocational which they're not and aren't intended to be.
So, you spend three of your most productive and flexible years learning a load of tosh that's going to be of no practical use just to prove you can do it? Well, if that's what some employers want then fine.
We want everything you've listed and for them to have learned the key technical skills that underpin everything we do.
Oh, and you missed "numerate" off your list but I guess that maths is hard.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
started boasting that he'd been to hull.
I applied to Hull to ensure I had a "wheels have fallen off, all turned to poo, can't possibly fail to get those grades" backstop offer.
ISTR they asked for a heady three Ds!I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
Not really. It was assuming that the candidate didn't want the interviewers laughing at them during the interview.missbiggles1 wrote: »You're assuming that most degrees are vocational which they're not and aren't intended to be.
Most degrees might not be vocational but if a person isn't intimately familiar with post A-level mathematics they haven't a hope of getting hired for most STEM-related jobs. They just lack the lingua franca of the fields involved and would take far too long to acquire it while on payroll. A graduate in a suitable field will have already demonstrated that they have that basic aptitude for the subject.
In practice many who opt out of STEM-related education do so because they are not capable in that area or not interested and thereby correctly select themselves out of the suitable candidate pool for the jobs.
No problem for those graduates. There are plenty of other jobs out there for graduates that don't require comfort and familiarity with mathematics.
By way of contrast, I got a chemistry degree with a year as an exchange computer science student and rewrote in assembly language a mathematics library from Microsoft to use a hardware mathematics coprocessor on a prototype board as final year project. That's the sort of background that would have gadgetmind salivating because it demonstrates fluency in the areas required for many potential STEM jobs, from higher mathematics knowledge to technical self-learning and intimate familiarity with computer technology, including pre-production protyping sort of work.0 -
I left school when university was aspiration not expectation.
Ditto. However, while I've never directly needed my degree (never had a job interview!), I've made massive use of everything I learned on my course, and do even now 30+ years later.
I also go back to give guest lectures at my old alma mater, which is rather daunting!I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
missbiggles1 wrote: »You're assuming that most degrees are vocational which they're not and aren't intended to be.
Most employers expect graduates to be intelligent, highly literate, good communicators, able to learn quickly and assimilate new information as well as being able to work under pressure. Those are all qualities which can be expected from graduates in any subject as long as they've achieved academically and have studied at an institution which has offered them challenges at an appropriate level.
Well thats the problem now, many degrees aren't vocational which is why those graduates often struggle to find graduate level jobs.
Your statement sounds like an advert from the recruitment poster from south Bedfordshire arts and crafts university, don't worry about the details, just bung us £9k for three years and when you come out with £40k of debt don't blame us when you can't find a proper job!0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »So, you spend three of your most productive and flexible years learning a load of tosh that's going to be of no practical use just to prove you can do it? Well, if that's what some employers want then fine.
We want everything you've listed and for them to have learned the key technical skills that underpin everything we do.
Oh, and you missed "numerate" off your list but I guess that maths is hard.
You're looking at it too narrowly and only relating it to your field - obviously if you're recruiting for engineering you want an engineering degree and numeracy's vital. However, if you're recruiting for the Civil Service graduate programme or for the retail sector you won't be looking for a body of knowlege but for transferable skills along the lines I described.0 -
Not really. It was assuming that the candidate didn't want the interviewers laughing at them during the interview.
Most degrees might not be vocational but if a person isn't intimately familiar with post A-level mathematics they haven't a hope of getting hired for most STEM-related jobs. They just lack the lingua franca of the fields involved and would take far too long to acquire it while on payroll. A graduate in a suitable field will have already demonstrated that they have that basic aptitude for the subject.
In practice many who opt out of STEM-related education do so because they are not capable in that area or not interested and thereby correctly select themselves out of the suitable candidate pool for the jobs.
No problem for those graduates. There are plenty of other jobs out there for graduates that don't require comfort and familiarity with mathematics.
By way of contrast, I got a chemistry degree with a year as an exchange computer science student and rewrote in assembly language a mathematics library from Microsoft to use a hardware mathematics coprocessor on a prototype board as final year project. That's the sort of background that would have gadgetmind salivating because it demonstrates fluency in the areas required for many potential STEM jobs, from higher mathematics knowledge to technical self-learning and intimate familiarity with computer technology, including pre-production protyping sort of work.
Sorry, I'm talking far more widely than STEM degrees.0 -
Well thats the problem now, many degrees aren't vocational which is why those graduates often struggle to find graduate level jobs.
Your statement sounds like an advert from the recruitment poster from south Bedfordshire arts and crafts university, don't worry about the details, just bung us £9k for three years and when you come out with £40k of debt don't blame us when you can't find a proper job!
You misunderstand me. I'm in favour of high standards and academic chal
lenge, but I do understand that employers recruit graduates from non vocational degree courses for their skills and ability rather than because of their body of knowledge.
If you look at the balance between vocational and non vocational degrees at Oxbridge and other elite universities you can see the importance of non vocational HE - it was, after all, the old Polytechnics whose main role was vocational HE.
https://targetcareers.co.uk/careers-advice/parents-and-teachers/60-the-top-five-myths-about-university-degrees-and-employment-prospects0
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