small business phone/broadband packages

MortgageMamma

Not sure if this is the right place to get the best response but I can't find any other area for business utilities

I am setting up a mortgage brokerage, initially from home (for the first 12 months)

I need some help with phone numbers. I don't know the difference between 0345 0845 0300 etc.

I want to install a phone number that is cheap for my customers to use but also cheap for me to use. As I'll be advising over the phone I expect some phone calls to be over an hour long. Can anyone advise which format of number is best to use? is it best to have the phone and broadband with one provider or split them? is there anywhere I can go to get a comparison of packages and costs

Also, not majorly important but I may have to move home before winter 2016 so I need a package that can move with me or no tie-ins.

Thanks in advance, going to post this in utilities too and see if anyone there can help

Ian011

It is best not to cross-post in multiple forums as this fragments the conversation.


You have three main choices. One is to get an extra line installed (and later move it) with a standard geographic 01 or 02 number reflecting the area where you are based. Another is to get a non-geographic number and 'point' it at your existing landline number. The last is to get an extra line installed AND point a non-geographic number at it. If and when you move, the non-geographic number can be pointed to a different landline number.

There's actually a fourth option. This is to advertise an additional number (either geographic or non-geographic) and forward the calls to your office via VoIP.


If you go for the extra line and advertise the native 01 or 02 number, people will be able to call you using their inclusive allowance from landlines (up to 60 minutes per call, re-dial for longer calls) and from mobiles (up to the limit of their monthly allowance). If the caller doesn't have an inclusive allowance they will pay 'geographic rate'. This can be anywhere from 2p to 12p per minute from landlines or 3p to 45p per minute from mobiles. The charge depends wholly on the caller's provider.

You'll pay line rental and for any calls you make. Presumably you will have an adequate inclusive allowance. Make sure you have a decent deal for calling mobile numbers. When you make calls, people will see your 01 or 02 number on their caller display.

If you go for any of the options that involve a non-geographic number, a third-party telecoms provider becomes involved. They simply receive incoming calls and forward them to your geographic number. They can also stack and queue calls. They can play announcements and set up 'press 1 for this, press 2 for that' options, and a whole load of other stuff. You get a web-based control panel to look at call stats and to configure where the forwarded calls are pointed to. It can be set to pay a 'we are currently closed' message on a set schedule. If someone calls while you are already in another call, they can be held in a queue or other options. Some systems have an option where they can leave their details for you to call them back later.


Obviously, the non-geographic provider needs to be paid for the service they provide. You have a choice of three types of non-geographic number and the only difference between them is what the caller and the called party pay and the flow of funds.

While your question focussed on what you will pay, you also need to take account of what callers will pay.


03

For the caller, calls are inclusive from landlines (up to 60 minutes per call) and from mobiles (up to the limit of the caller's monthly allowance) else charged at 'geographic rate' - the same as 01 and 02 numbers. If you are getting a brand new number, you get one from the 033 range. If you previously had an 084 or 087 number, you qualify for the exactly matching 034 or 037 number.

The called party pays a small fee to the non-geographic number provider. This covers the cost of the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding. With the right deal, this can be much less than 1p per minute.


080

The caller pays nothing. Calls are free from landlines and from mobile phones.

The called party pays the same call-handling and call-forwarding charges as above AND pays an additional Call Origination Fee to compensate the caller's landline or mobile provider for the fact that the caller paid nothing for the call. The Call Origination Fee is a penny per minute or so for incoming calls from landlines and an extra few pence per minute more for incoming calls from mobile phones. The COF is around 80p (yeah, really) on incoming calls from payphones (and is known as the Payphone Levy or Payphone Surcharge). Some providers have an option to bar incoming calls from payphones.


084, 087, 09

The caller pays an Access Charge to their landline or mobile provider for connecting and conveying the call. The Access Charge is
- up to 12p per minute from landlines, or
- up to 45p per minute from mobiles.
Most are at or near the top of this range.

The caller also pays a Service Charge that is passed on and paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider (the non-geographic number provider). The Service Charge pays for the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding. Anything left over is paid out to the called party as 'revenue share' or is used to provide a discount off other telecoms services provided to the called party.

The Service Charge is set by the exact choice of telephone number used for the service. The Service Charge can be
- for 084 numbers, up to 7p per minute or per call
- for 087 numbers, up to 13p per minute or per call
- for 09 numbers, up to £6 per call or up to £3.60 per minute, or a combination of both.

The Service Charge must be declared in close proximity to the number everywhere the number is advertised or promoted. [Ofcom, ASA]

The called party pays nothing. If the Service Charge is more than a few pence per minute, the called party will begin to receive revenue share payments. These are premium rate numbers. The premium is the additional Service Charge. If the Service Charge is more than 7p per minute or per call, it becomes a Controlled Premium Rate Service and subject to additional PhonepayPlus regulation.

Various regulations and guidance that have come into force over the last few years means that numbers starting 084, 087 and 09 can no longer be used by
- retailers, traders and passenger transport companies for post-sales helplines [BIS]
- financial services companies for contact by existing customers [FCA]
- government departments and public services [Cabinet Office]
- NHS bodies and NHS contractors [DoH]
Their usage for sales lines and pre-sales enquiry lines is a well-known "sales prevention technique".

These are numbers for providing a chargeable service paid for as the call is being made. If you are not providing this type of service then you have no business using this type of number.


Some providers of 084 and 087 numbers are economical with the truth. Many have websites with very out of date information. Many state how much the numbers cost to call from a BT landline using prices from years ago. Most will tell you that calls to 0845 numbers are 'local rate'. This hasn't been true since 2004. Both Ofcom and ASA issued a note about this in 2005.

Some providers will attempt to sign you up for an 0845 or 0870 number on the basis that they are 'free from (BT) landlines'. Don't fall for it. These are premium rate numbers. BT, as the largest supplier of these numbers to businesses, is the recipient of the Service Charge which has to be paid when anyone calls one of these numbers from any other landline or mobile network. Those other providers pay the fee and most of them correctly pass that cost on to the customer that called the number. Those callers pay a lot more to call 084 and 087 numbers than to call 01, 02 and 03 numbers.


So, that's the major decision you have to make. Are you going to
- charge callers for your services at a per-minute rate by imposing a Service Charge and thereby expose the caller to a massive Access Charge levied by their landline or mobile provider (084, 087, 09)
- provide a number that is completely free to call from landlines and mobiles but may incur significant cost for the called party (080), or
- provide a number that is inclusive or geographic rate for the caller and with minimal cost to the called party (01, 02, 03)?

The mechanics of whether you install a second line or forward calls by VoIP are also important. Some VoIP providers will foist an 056 number on you. Avoid those. People will not want to call it as they will have no idea what it costs.




See also
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5292529

MortgageMamma

Ian011 wrote: »

It is best not to cross-post in multiple forums as this fragments the conversation.


You have three main choices. One is to get an extra line installed (and later move it) with a standard geographic 01 or 02 number reflecting the area where you are based. Another is to get a non-geographic number and 'point' it at your existing landline number. The last is to get an extra line installed AND point a non-geographic number at it. If and when you move, the non-geographic number can be pointed to a different landline number.

If you go for the extra line and advertise the native 01 or 02 number, people will be able to call you using their inclusive allowance from landlines (up to 60 minutes per call, re-dial for longer calls) and from mobiles (up to the limit of their monthly allowance). If the caller doesn't have an inclusive allowance they will pay 'geographic rate'. This can be anywhere from 2p to 12p per minute from landlines or 3p to 45p per minute from mobiles. The charge depends wholly on the caller's provider.

You'll pay line rental and for any calls you make. Presumably you will have an adequate inclusive allowance. Make sure you have a decent deal for calling mobile numbers. When you make calls, people will see your 01 or 02 number on their caller display.

If you go for any of the options that involve a non-geographic number, a third-party telecoms provider becomes involved. They simply receive incoming calls and forward them to your geographic number. They can also stack and queue calls. They can play announcements and set up 'press 1 for this, press 2 for that' options, and a whole load of other stuff. You get a web-based control panel to look at call stats and to configure where the forwarded calls are pointed to. It can be set to pay a 'we are currently closed' message on a set schedule. If someone calls while you are already in another call, they can be held in a queue or other options. Some systems have an option where they can leave their details for you to call them back later.

There's actually a fourth option. This is to advertise an additional number (either geographic or non-geographic) and forward the calls to your office via VoIP.


Obviously, the non-geographic provider needs to be paid for the service they provide. You have a choice of three types of non-geographic number and the only difference between them is what the caller and the called party pay and the flow of funds.

While your question focussed on what you will pay, you also need to take account of what callers will pay.


03

For the caller, calls are inclusive from landlines (up to 60 minutes per call) and from mobiles (up to the limit of the caller's monthly allowance) else charged at 'geographic rate' - the same as 01 and 02 numbers. If you are getting a brand new number, you get one from the 033 range. If you previously had an 084 or 087 number, you qualify for the exactly matching 034 or 037 number.

The called party pays a small fee to the non-geographic number provider. This covers the cost of the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding. With the right deal, this can be much less than 1p per minute.


080

The caller pays nothing. Calls are free from landlines and from mobile phones.

The called party pays the same call-handling and call-forwarding charges as above AND pays an additional Call Origination Fee to compensate the caller's landline or mobile provider for the fact that the caller paid nothing for the call. The Call Origination Fee is a penny per minute or so for incoming calls from landlines and an extra few pence per minute more for incoming calls from mobile phones. The COF is around 80p (yeah, really) on incoming calls from payphones (and is known as the Payphone Levy or Payphone Surcharge). Some providers have an option to bar incoming calls from payphones.


084, 087, 09

The caller pays an Access Charge to their landline or mobile provider for connecting and conveying the call. The Access Charge is
- up to 12p per minute from landlines, or
- up to 45p per minute from mobiles.
Most are at or near the top of this range.

The caller also pays a Service Charge that is passed on and paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider (the non-geographic number provider). The Service Charge pays for the non-geographic call-handling and call-forwarding. Anything left over is paid out to the called party as 'revenue share' or is used to provide a discount off other telecoms services provided to the called party.

The Service Charge is set by the exact choice of telephone number used for the service. The Service Charge can be
- for 084 numbers, up to 7p per minute or per call
- for 087 numbers, up to 13p per minute or per call
- for 09 numbers, up to £6 per call or up to £3.60 per minute, or a combination of both.

The Service Charge must be declared in close proximity to the number everywhere the number is advertised or promoted. [Ofcom, ASA]

The called party pays nothing. If the Service Charge is more than a few pence per minute, the called party will begin to receive revenue share payments. These are premium rate numbers. The premium is the additional Service Charge. If the Service Charge is more than 7p per minute or per call, it becomes a Controlled Premium Rate Service and subject to additional PhonepayPlus regulation.

Various regulations and guidance that have come into force over the last few years means that numbers starting 084, 087 and 09 can no longer be used by
- retailers, traders and passenger transport companies for post-sales helplines [BIS]
- financial services companies for contact by existing customers [FCA]
- government departments and public services [Cabinet Office]
- NHS bodies and NHS contractors [DoH]
Their usage for sales lines and pre-sales enquiry lines is a well-known "sales prevention technique".

These are numbers for providing a chargeable service paid for as the call is being made. If you are not providing this type of service then you have no business using this type of number.


Some providers of 084 and 087 numbers are economical with the truth. Many have websites with very out of date information. Many state how much the numbers cost to call from a BT landline using prices from years ago. Most will tell you that calls to 0845 numbers are 'local rate'. This hasn't been true since 2004. Both Ofcom and ASA issued a note about this in 2005.

Some providers will attempt to sign you up for an 0845 or 0870 number on the basis that they are 'free from (BT) landlines'. Don't fall for it. These are premium rate numbers. BT, as the largest supplier of these numbers to businesses, is the recipient of the Service Charge which has to be paid when anyone calls one of these numbers for any other landline or mobile network. Those other providers pay the fee and most of them correctly pass that cost on to the customer that called the number. Those callers pay a lot more to call 084 and 087 numbers than to call 01, 02 and 03 numbers.


So, that's the major decision you have to make. Are you going to
- charge callers for your services at a per-minute rate by imposing a Service Charge and thereby expose the caller to a massive Access Charge levied by their landline or mobile provider (084, 087, 09)
- provide a number that is completely free to call from landlines and mobiles but may incur significant cost for the called party (080), or
- provide a number that is inclusive or geographic rate for the caller and with minimal cost to the called party (01, 02, 03)?

The mechanics of whether you install a second line or forward calls by VoIP are also important. Some VoIP providers will foist an 056 number on you. Avoid those. People will not want to call it as they will have no idea what it costs.




See also
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5292529

OMG you well and truly nailed that, thank you for your time I appreciate it. Can I just ask one more question? are you in telecoms and able to find providers/set up accounts for people?

Ian011

I can't personally recommend anyone, but a poke around an industry site such as CallCentreHelper might give you further insights from others in the industry.

Once you start looking at the websites of non-geographic providers you should start to see those that are economical with the truth or appear to be making it up as they go along. I have given a few pointers to things you might want to look out for.

Those that focus on what you pay rather than on what your callers will pay are hoping to make extra profit at the expense of your customers. If they focus on BT call prices or waffle on about local rate, then look elsewhere.

Ian011

A couple of extra comments that I forgot to add before:

Provision of the non-geographic number can be completely separate from the physical line or VoIP provider. They do not need to be related, except for one circumstance.

I mentioned caller ID in the original post but didn't finish the explanation. When you call someone from a normal landline or mobile phone, the person receiving the call will see your number on their display. If you get a non-geographic number, this simply forwards incoming calls and has no effect on outgoing calls. If you want people to be able to see the non-geographic number on their caller display when you call them, you'll need to get the provider to set that up. You will likely then need the two to be the same supplier.

Many of the 03 providers have packages with bundled minutes of incoming (i.e. forwarded) calls, often thousands of minutes per month, but once you go over this the per-minute rate can be expensive, at several pence per minute. (Just like mobile phones where outgoing calls may be 1000 minutes for £20.00 but if you go over then it is 45p per minute). Always get a bigger package than you need and make sure you can change mid-month if it looks like you are going to run out.