NTK from Secure-a-Space

SimBurg

Hi,

In December, I parked at my partner's place and left the car for a few days - visitor parking is limited to 24 hours (or to 10am the morning after the permit is issued) so I got a new permit but it must have fallen off the dashboard. Anyway, got a PCN on December 23rd and have appealed it. (I have the permit, but it's basically just a square of paper with the date on it and the flat number written on - I can post it if it's at all worth it!)

I've read the newbies bit, and I've got as far as having an appeal rejection and a NTK from Secure-a-Space. I'll list everything below and hopefully someone can help me beat this ticket, if it is indeed beatable. (Can't post links, so you'll need www at the beginning. Apologies.)

December 23 2015: PCN: dropbox.com/s/6w9vo3xxwsmtxf7/ticket.jpg?dl=0
(The signs look like this: dropbox.com/s/0cq1ad2q2mnddt8/sign.jpg?dl=0)

Jan 14 2016: Sent this challenge via email (direct from the Newbies sticky (which is a bit confusing, I think)): dropbox.com/s/mi9zwdltw41ej51/challenge.txt?dl=0

Jan 25 2016: Got this response from SaS: dropbox.com/s/oh3pbrvxa05sl4c/sas-response1.txt?dl=0

Feb 3 2016: Got this NTK through the post: dropbox.com/s/tygvcr6fbqzruhn/NTK.jpg?dl=0

Feb 17 2016: Got this 'appeal reply' via email from SaS: dropbox.com/s/wyzn8tni8zeq01n/appeal-reply.pdf?dl=0

So. Carry on the good fight, or cough up the dough? I had the permit but I guess they couldn't see it (haven't seen their photos).

Any and all help greatly appreciated in advance.

Thanks!

Redx

so as they issued a popla code, draft up a popla appeal and post a copy here for critique, minus personal details and references

post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread helps with examples of popla appeals

ps:- the rejection you posted shows they clearly saw it and photographed it, the permit said 21st and they photographed it on the 23rd, so they definitely saw it and saw it was out of date !!

Coupon-mad

Horribly illegibly obscured & messy/wordy signs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cq1ad2q2mnddt8/sign.jpg?dl=0

PCN

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6w9vo3xxwsmtxf7/ticket.jpg?dl=0


Sneaky first reply to an emailed template appeal from the keeper:

''Subject: Re: PCN xxxxx Appeal

Thank you for your email. Your appeal wording has led us to assume that you were perhaps not the driver of the vehicle but are appealing on their behalf. Or you may not have provided your full contact details as the driver of the vehicle.

It is the driver's responsibility to park within the terms and conditions of the private property and read and observe the signs provided. Without knowledge of the driver's details, we must follow a procedure called POFA which allows us to obtain details from DVLA to obtain the vehicle keeper details, then issue a Notice to the Keeper of the vehicle, which formally requests them to provide the driver name and address at that stage. Should the keeper be unwilling or unable to do so within time restrictions provided, they would then assume liability for the Parking Charge Notice.

We can follow the above procedure, however it is quicker for all parties for us to politely request this information by email at the appeal stage when it has not been provided. It is your right to withhold such information as it is our right to formally use the channels in place to obtain the information at that stage. Over 7 days has passed since our original email so should we not receive the details requested today, a request would be put in very soon as we have strict time deadlines to keep within.

All of the above information would be required to be provided by us, should the matter go to an independent appeal (POPLA) and therefore is necessary to be obtained in preparation for such eventualities.

Should you have any further queries please don't hesitate to contact us.​''

^^^
they were economical with the truth in the paragraph in red which makes it sound as if at POPLA stage they would have the right to have the driver's details, which they still don't.

Rejection letter:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wyzn8tni8zeq01n/appeal-reply.pdf?dl=0

LOL, they accuse a keeper appellant of 'not entering into the spirit of the (POFA) legislation'!

A PCS Notice to Keeper is better than some but never 100% on the paragraph 8 wording:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tygvcr6fbqzruhn/NTK.jpg?dl=0

Not seeing a period of parking (only a time of issue of a PCN) and it fails to repeat that info from the PCN which states the parking period observed actually started at 12.05. Sounds pedantic but Schedule 4 says the NTK 'must' repeat certain information from the PCN.

Also not seeing a 'date sent' in the post or 'date given'. Did this arrive that same week of 3rd Feb, or the following week? Do you have the envelope and can you tell if it was posted on 3rd or not?

You need a POPLA appeal a bit like this one (below) so adapt this and show us your draft - although in your case you did get a NTK which did arrive in time - so you will instead need to point out the omissions, not say there wasn't any NTK as in this example:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/70180619#Comment_70180619

Here's a Secure-a Space one although whichever parts you use you will need to make it suit your case and make amendments:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/69830619#Comment_69830619

Although I would change the GPEOL argument to this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/70183368#Comment_70183368

Then, show us how it looks once you've adapted it all and changed the details & PPC's name.

POPLA is winnable - but will require a strong rebuttal of any evidence and close scrutiny of the evidence pack, for the rationale for their charge (which they might try to argue is a contractual price to park, not breach...). Hopefully - like a lot of these - they won't show a landowner contract or it will be unreadable or undated, whcih would make it easier.

Because POPLA is winnable and the sum cannot increase whilst at POPLA (and because these firms are scum) there is no reason at all to pay, why would you? No point. There is no risk - even if you lose at POPLA the 'charge' is the same and could be paid (so you lose nothing by POPLA-ing it) but we would still not tell you to pay! Secure a Space are not known as madly litigious and most cases would just get debt collector threatograms for months.