More tooth problems, how can dental bridges cost £650?

mal4mac

Here's some official figures, average take home pay for the 19,586 registered dentists was £89,062.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8183788.stm

Looks like payscale.com was underestimating the salaries (which you might expect from self reporting...)

Surprising (to me) NHS dentists earn twice as much:

"Dentists running their own practices who had a contract with the local primary care organisation to provide NHS services earned on average £126,807. But dentists working in a practice without such a contract earned on average £65,697."

How does that happen?

welshdent

Until recently I was 5 days a week full time NHS practice with over 10'years full time general practice. I have never earned that much neither have any of the dentists I have worked with earned that much. But. Even if we HAD. That would have meant we had done enough work to REACH that much money. Hence being self employed. If a builder built 10 houses they would be paid for building 10 houses. Not paid for 8 because they shouldn't be earning too much in some people's opinions.

mal4mac

Builders can earn more by cutting corners, or recommending fancy fittings. Here's a discussion on CEREC versus amalgam fillings:

"I'd like to get CEREC instead of horrible amalgam, I'm happy to pay the £275 each for those, however because naturally its done at the same time, I need to pay the £175 each for the root canal - rather than the £47 for everything (including amalgams) as NHS"

http://www.dentalfearcentral.org/forum/showthread.php?15622-Why-can-t-we-pay-for-own-CEREC-whilst-having-NHS-root-canal

So that's £900 private, versus £47 NHS. Is CEREC a way for the dentist to game his NHS patients into going private?

welshdent

Well you are not making any valid points there. Cerec is simply a tool to make crowns inlays and onlays chair side instead of sending to a lab. Also cerec costs around 80k for a bluecam and 100k for an omnicam all paid for by the dentist. So just how you expect people to recoup the costs if they don't charge people for it is beyond me.

But that as an aside no it isn't. Because crowns inlays and onlays are band 3 not 2 items.
Inlays and onlays are sometimes alternatives to large fillings and in some situations better alternatives. The cerec makes all ceramic or hybrid ceramic/resin restorations but those same restorations can be made in a lab. I fail to see the relevance of your comments on builders cutting corners plus not that many practices have a cerec.

welshdent

Oh and you only need a root filling if the tooth needs a root filling. Having an inlay onlay or crown does not mean you need a root filling. So you are trying to make an invalid comparison

Apollonia

mal4mac wrote: »

Here's some official figures, average take home pay for the 19,586 registered dentists was £89,062.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8183788.stm

Looks like payscale.com was underestimating the salaries (which you might expect from self reporting...)

Surprising (to me) NHS dentists earn twice as much:

"Dentists running their own practices who had a contract with the local primary care organisation to provide NHS services earned on average £126,807. But dentists working in a practice without such a contract earned on average £65,697."

How does that happen?

The article you linked refers to financial year 2007-2008. The current recession hit in 2009 and I believe that the NHS dental remuneration contract has also changed since then. I'm not a dentist but I'm sure one of the regular contributors can confirm.

2013-14 figures are here and confirm earnings have been reducing since 2006/7.

Please note also that the figures are taxable income. As previously stated, these dentists are self-employed and will have NI and pensions to pay for as well as the costs of being registered and insured to work in practice. Not forgetting student debt.

Also worth bearing in mind is that the figures from the NHS include earnings from any dentist who does any NHS work. This means that a dentist who likes to spend 1 day a week in a dental access centre and 4 days a week in a private cosmetic practice will be included in these statistics. So the average will be bumped up significantly by these individuals.

brook2jack

mal4mac wrote: »

Here's some official figures, average take home pay for the 19,586 registered dentists was £89,062.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8183788.stm

Looks like payscale.com was underestimating the salaries (which you might expect from self reporting...)

Surprising (to me) NHS dentists earn twice as much:

"Dentists running their own practices who had a contract with the local primary care organisation to provide NHS services earned on average £126,807. But dentists working in a practice without such a contract earned on average £65,697.



How does that happen?

You have misunderstood and the BBC do not understand the figures. Only practice owners (less than 20%) have contracts with the NHS which is the higher figure. You would expect a person running a small business employing many people and incurring large loans (which are not tax deductible) Most dentists do not own a practice (80% ) so will earn the lower figure from NHS or private treatment.

Dentists who provide mostly NHS work earn around 5% more than those who provide mostly private work.

In fact according to the Inland revenue pay scale.com is an over estimation and in 2013\2014 performer dentists in the UK averaged between £56,000 and £60,000 depending on which country of the U.K. they were in. That is 80% of self employed dentists.

It is important to note these figures do not include employed dentists who earn much less , and do not include the costs of practice loans, postgraduate training etc.

It is also true to say that incomes have gone down in the two years since then and expenses have gone up , a pattern that has continued since 2007 so this years earnings are going to be less again.

As said before the perks of being employed such as paid holidays,sick leave, maternity pay etc mean a self employed person has to earn around 20% more minimum to achieve a rough parity.

http://www.hscic.gov.uk/catalogue/PUB18376/dent-earn-expe-2013-14-init-rep.pdf

mal4mac

welshdent wrote: »

Also cerec costs around 80k for a bluecam and 100k for an omnicam all paid for by the dentist. So just how you expect people to recoup the costs if they don't charge people for it is beyond me.
.

In that example, the approx. £800 difference means he'd only have to make 100 crowns to pay for his CEREC machine.

... not that many practices have a cerec.

Mine does, and having lost a large filling, I either need a large filling or a crown tomorrow.

Also, I have recurring pain under a crown that requires the full ibuprofen/ paracetomol to make it bearable. So that may need a root treatment or pulling (?)

Plus I have a cracked ceramic on metal crown with metal still intact that I'd be happy for them to leave, unless they deem it necessary to replace it to pay for the porsche

I think fixing this wreckage should cost £51.35 (band 2) but, on past experience, and that Channel 4 dispatches report, I expect some heavy gaming to go on...

mal4mac

Apollonia wrote: »

The article you linked refers to financial year 2007-2008. The current recession hit in 2009 and I believe that the NHS dental remuneration contract has also changed since then. I'm not a dentist but I'm sure one of the regular contributors can confirm.

2013-14 figures are here and confirm earnings have been reducing since 2006/7.

£72 000. Still not bad!

welshdent

You really need to work on your maths. its a £20000 difference. And how do you propose we magic up an ADDITIONAL 100 crowns from??!

You expect this assume that yet the reality is nothing of the sort.