Dismissal for absence

cono1717

So this is a strange one but please bear with me.

I'm hoping to review the contract later but looking for a bit of advice prior to that. My girlfriends place of employment is seemingly dismissing people based on their attendance, most recently her friend who collapsed in work yesterday - is this legal? I'll detail some of the facts that I know so far:

• There is a probation period of 6 months, my girlfriends, friend, finished that three weeks ago - it is my understanding that dismissal within this period leads to you having no rights? What about outside the period?
  
• They use the bradford factor system and have documented to employees that certain scores can lead to certain actions (I don't know the exact figures but as an example) a score of 5 can lead to a verbal warning, a score of 10 can lead to a written warning and a score of 15 can be seen as gross misconduct. This friend hasn't even reached the score for a verbal warning
  
• The mention of a meeting to discuss the attendance was only made after she returned to work today (even though she fainted yesterday afternoon)
  
• The hospital hasn't labeled it any condition of any sort (to the best of my knowledge (obviously people are private about things))

There has been no mention that the meeting this could be because of performance e.t.c it has been stressed as attendance. Is this something that is fair to do, offer a system that the company uses for employees then just simply not abide by it?

Lioness_Twinkletoes

If you've been employed for less than two years your employer can dismiss for any reason - all they need to do is give correct notice.

maninthestreet

Less then 2 years service means they can be sacked without warning with little come back, unless they can show they were subject to illegal discrimination.

sangie595

Until she has two years service, then unless a dismissal is due to certain reasons (like race, sex, or disability) then there is nothing an employee can do - they have very limited rights and unfair dismissal isn't one of them. So unless the system is contractual, and it probably isn't, then there is nothing she can do - and even if it is contractual, her options would be very limited and wouldn't include getting her job back. At best it would be limited to notice pay, assuming they didn't pay it.

And even after two years, it is entirely legal to dismiss people based on attendance, provided they follow the system and due process - in fact it is common these days. And that can even include people absent due to disability.

cono1717

Lioness_Twinkletoes wrote: »

If you've been employed for less than two years your employer can dismiss for any reason - all they need to do is give correct notice.

Oh wow, that's an eye opener!

What's the correct notice?

sangie595

cono1717 wrote: »

Oh wow, that's an eye opener!

What's the correct notice?

One week or contractual notice, whichever is the longer

ERICS_MUM

Most companies do an interview when someone returns to work after sickness absence. Mainly to discuss if there's anything the company can do to help the member of staff improve their attendance (eg provide a different chair to reduce back ache). Very large companies might offer help via occupational health (in-house or external contract).

The interview will also cover disciplinary procedures for absence especially lots of short absences or regular such as every Monday ! Might lead to a verbal or written warning or more serious if the situation warrants it.

Having said that, the two year rule applies as mentioned above if the employer deems it's appropriate.

Bigphil1474

Where I work we have a Managing Attendance Procedure - have more than 8.5 days sick a year and you enter the procedure and are given sickness targets to not exceed etc. until your rolling 12 months sickness falls below 8.5 days. Basically, my employer has to follow that procedure.
As others have said, you have to have worked there for 2 years for unfair dismissal. However, for 'automatically unfair' reasons there is no 2 year qualifying period - there's a list, but it does include being a part time worker, being pregnant, discrimination reasons (age, race etc.), so it might be worth exploring them if applicable. https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/unfair-dismissals

sangie595

Bigphil1474 wrote: »

Where I work we have a Managing Attendance Procedure - have more than 8.5 days sick a year and you enter the procedure and are given sickness targets to not exceed etc. until your rolling 12 months sickness falls below 8.5 days. Basically, my employer has to follow that procedure.
As others have said, you have to have worked there for 2 years for unfair dismissal. However, for 'automatically unfair' reasons there is no 2 year qualifying period - there's a list, but it does include being a part time worker, being pregnant, discrimination reasons (age, race etc.), so it might be worth exploring them if applicable. https://www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/unfair-dismissals

To be clear - something is only automatically unfair if the reason for dismissal is because of one of these characteristics. So you are dismissed because you are part-time, for example. It is not unfair if you are part-time and dismissed for absence, providing the same would apply to someone full-time - and the OP suggests that it is applied to everyone who has sickness absence, which makes it not applicable.

daytona0

The Bradford score is used in my last place (Call center)....

It isn't anything like a linear 5-10-15 model.... If 15 was gross misconduct then we would all be sacked!

Bottom line is that you are there to work and sadly these places only have a certain amount of empathy for those who are unwell. The fact that this friend lasted for 6 months or more is either really good on the employer for giving them a chance, or very unlucky on the friend who has been screwed over.

Going forward (haha what a terrible phrase), the friend should find out why they are fainting as, if it is linked to a disability, they may be better protected in other jobs.

Meanwhile, your girlfriend should continue to not be late/absent as to avoid being sacked (or get a better job/try harder in the next job)

FBaby

This friend hasn't even reached the score for a verbal warning

How do you know that? You would score much worse if you were to take for instance three time one day off sick, than one spell of sickness that lasted 3 days. Does she actually know her score and did she share it with you?