Good of Bad News for Storage?

Exiled_Tyke

http://mashable.com/2016/01/28/first-tesla-powerwall/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-tech-link#F_zHO5HUiRqa

I began to read this optimistic that battery storage might finally becoming realistic but then realised we are perhaps still a long way off because

1. There's a good reason they've started selling in Australia - it appears to be the only place with enough reliable sun for this to be financially viable.
2. Even then payback is expected to be 8 years
3. And that includes being able to sell electricity back at premium peak-time rates to the grid.

ed110220

Exiled_Tyke wrote: »

http://mashable.com/2016/01/28/first-tesla-powerwall/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-tech-link#F_zHO5HUiRqa

I began to read this optimistic that battery storage might finally becoming realistic but then realised we are perhaps still a long way off because

1. There's a good reason they've started selling in Australia - it appears to be the only place with enough reliable sun for this to be financially viable.
2. Even then payback is expected to be 8 years
3. And that includes being able to sell electricity back at premium peak-time rates to the grid.

One thing to remember that is often forgotten is that electricity prices can vary by as much, if not more than sunshine on a world scale. I'm not sure what electricity prices are in Australia but it's easily possible that something that would be economic where electricity is expensive and it's not especially sunny could be uneconomic in a country that is sunny but has cheap electricity.
I

zeupater

Hi All

.... and there's absolutely no data in the article to suggest anything either way ....

Unit price
Installation
tax
Finance agreement
Subsidy availability (state or utility)
Energy usage
Generation
Self Consumption
Usage profile
Power requirement from high draw loads.
Energy unit price
Standing charge (equivalent)
Energy cost taxation.
Maintenance agreement.

Anyway, 8 years probably isn't all that bad for a starting position on a new technology, but it'll definitely become a little interesting when/if installed storage hits the £250-£300/kWh mark.

HTH
Z

Exiled_Tyke

Agree with you both which is why I used the word 'perhaps' . There are too many unknowns still. But I find it interesting that they've started selling in Australia ahead of anywhere else. I'd also be very interested to know when/how SolarEdge's StorEdge is coming to market.

Martyn1981

Exiled_Tyke wrote: »

http://mashable.com/2016/01/28/first-tesla-powerwall/?utm_cid=mash-com-fb-tech-link#F_zHO5HUiRqa

I began to read this optimistic that battery storage might finally becoming realistic but then realised we are perhaps still a long way off because

I think we're a fair way off too here, assuming no subsidy or industry support.

Hawaii and Australia are touted as the first to go subsidy free (in the future). Germany has a lot already, but that's state supported.

The US has started, and the Germans have beaten Tesla to the launch:

Sonnenbatterie beats Tesla to the punch with US roll-out


Personally, I think I could save around £100 to £140 pa with 4kWh of useable storage (5kWh Li-ion, or 8 to 10kWh of LA). Assuming a 10 year life and ignoring other kit, that means batts have to cost £1k or less. So still quite a way off here.

But ..... there are (I think) 4 income streams:-
1. Household - Domestic import savings v's export value.
2. Leccy supplier - purchasing less leccy at expensive peak rates, whilst charging households a fixed rate pa.
3. DNO's - Savings on infrastructure costs and maintenance with reduced peak loads.
4. Government - CO2 targets/fines as peak demand has a higher CO2 content than lower demand as all FF plant is running.

If the cost is borne by all parties, then something that doesn't make financial sense for any individual, may work out when shared.


SolarEdge has come to market I think, not sure if installing, but they are marketing. They are working in conjunction with Tesla and their Powerwall product.

Some other products (not a full list, Australian article):

Battery storage: What’s on offer, and by whom?

Mart.

Martyn1981

ed110220 wrote: »

One thing to remember that is often forgotten is that electricity prices can vary by as much, if not more than sunshine on a world scale. I'm not sure what electricity prices are in Australia but it's easily possible that something that would be economic where electricity is expensive and it's not especially sunny could be uneconomic in a country that is sunny but has cheap electricity.
I

These factors are important. Spain has effectively blocked demand side PV, with it's export tax.

Australia isn't as bad, but they have dropped their leccy prices, whilst putting up their standing charges, which works against PV and PV + storage. However ...... it does push things towards off-grid if they go too far with this policy.

Hawaii uses a lot of diesel, and has high leccy prices, so they are very much in favour of PV (supply or demand side) plus storage.

The US is more complex, parts have excellent sunshine, though leccy prices aren't that high. However, they do have a lot of disposable income, and they like their gadgets.

The UK ...... don't think we have anything particularly going for us (though leccy prices are fairly high) so we'll have to wait for prices to fall, but expectations are for rapid price reductions, possibly PV like, as demand and supply rise (rocket?)

Mart.