Solar Thermal - Renewable Heat Incentive

JasonFordyX

I bought a new build last year that came with a Worcester Solar Thermal system (heats the hot water). According to the OFGEM site, my system is eligible for a Domestic RHi payment on a quarterly basis, subject to my application being accepted. The application requires the MCS Certificate Number which i don't have as it was part of the new build. The house builder seems to think that a MCS certificate is only issued when it involves electricity and the Feed in Tariff (FiT). Has anyone else retrospectively applied for RHI payments on a new build with solar thermal?

I've also posted this under 'Energy' within the forum as wasn't sure where the best place was

zeupater

JasonFordyX wrote: »

I bought a new build last year that came with a Worcester Solar Thermal system (heats the hot water). According to the OFGEM site, my system is eligible for a Domestic RHi payment on a quarterly basis, subject to my application being accepted. The application requires the MCS Certificate Number which i don't have as it was part of the new build. The house builder seems to think that a MCS certificate is only issued when it involves electricity and the Feed in Tariff (FiT). Has anyone else retrospectively applied for RHI payments on a new build with solar thermal?

I've also posted this under 'Energy' within the forum as wasn't sure where the best place was

Hi

Check a different part of the OfGem site ... https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/key-term-explained/custom-builds ...

Newly built properties built by non-individuals won’t be eligible for the Domestic RHI – for example this applies where a commercial developer or a social landlord has built the property using company funds, even if the properties are later sold to individuals.

So, in summary, it depends on whether the property was a custom (/self) build or not, which, from your post, doesn't seem to be the case.

HTH
Z

mnbvcxz

Bad luck.

Ridiculous as it sounds you could look into the cost of replacing your nearly new system. Given you already have all the plumbing installed a broad minded installer might be prepared to just replace your panels quickly with new ones thus creating a new installation on the existing occupied building that then would be eligible for the subsidies without all the usual costs of installing plumbing and so on. You would then sell your old panels on eBay for a pittance as virtually new, or keep them as spares or even reuse them as extra capacity? You would think swapping the panels would just be a morning up a ladder. Whether you could even just swap you panels with a neighbours for a new installation with second hand parts?

This is an uninformed speculative idea though. There may be rules against reusing second hand parts and I don't know how much of the system has to be replaced to count as a new system. Its a thought though.

zeupater

mnbvcxz wrote: »

Bad luck.

Ridiculous as it sounds you could look into the cost of replacing your nearly new system. Given you already have all the plumbing installed a broad minded installer might be prepared to just replace your panels quickly with new ones thus creating a new installation on the existing occupied building that then would be eligible for the subsidies without all the usual costs of installing plumbing and so on. You would then sell your old panels on eBay for a pittance as virtually new, or keep them as spares or even reuse them as extra capacity? You would think swapping the panels would just be a morning up a ladder. Whether you could even just swap you panels with a neighbours for a new installation with second hand parts?

This is an uninformed speculative idea though. There may be rules against reusing second hand parts and I don't know how much of the system has to be replaced to count as a new system. Its a thought though.

Hi

Really? ..... as already mentioned in the above referenced post, probably a little too much uninformed speculation going on ....

To access RHI funding the OP would need to provide the MCS certificate, EPC & Advice Report (Occupancy Assessment).

The problem with the referenced post is that the builder would have needed the property to have an EPC in order to sell and, of course, the solar thermal would have been noted & included in the rating. If the advice is to spend money to have the system removed, then pay to have the property's EPC reassessed and also have an occupancy assessment report, then find an unscrupulous MCS installer to carry out an installation where there had obviously been one removed (without reporting the issue and therefore risking the MCS accreditation) and paying for the installation and MCS certificate .... all this effort & cost only to find that the RHI application is refused due to the property's EPC history showing that it had solar thermal when built .....

So, the advice is to spend money (probably £1k-£2k minimum) & commit fraud (Ofgem Counter Fraud) in order to access RHI funding which is probably worth not a lot more than (say) ~£50/qtr, that's ~£1500 over 7 years ?? ..... probably not a path many would look to travel, especially on a moneysaving site ... :shhh: :think: :whistle:

HTH
Z

mnbvcxz

zeupater wrote: »

So, the advice is to spend money (probably £1k-£2k minimum) & commit fraud

Steady, I think that's a bit strong. It is only fraud if it is a) against the rules and b) they hide what they are doing.

If it is allowed to replace an existing installation with a new one to qualify for the tariff then it is merely a perversely inefficient action made in response to government incentives. Hardly fraud or entirely unusual.

As to the economics I have no idea, the website suggests only the panels need to be brand new, the rest of the system can be reused. How much the price of a panel is compared to the subsidy I have no idea

You may be right, the subsidies may not even cover the cost of just the panels on their own even when relieved of all the other costs.

But if the original poster is keen on rhi subsidies I still think its not a terrible suggestion to explore the options.

mumsandra

Hi, Sorry that my post isn't anything to do with this thread, but I'm not sure where else to put it. I've had a quote for Solar Thermal in the last week and it includes the Existing Equipment to be replaced / and disposed of from site
· Estimated Hot water cylinder in excess of 20 years
· Current efficiency undetermined , but not suitable for Solar thermal collection
· Inadequate for the efficient storage of large amounts of Hot water / production thereof

Recommend possible measurers to improve efficacy, the installation of a larger solar cylinder together with the following controls and equipment
· 450 by 1400 Copper Twin Coiled Insulated Hot water cylinder (Unvented) with immersions including a solar coil
· 15number evacuated tubes ( for the production of hot water from the Sun )
· Solar Pumping Station ( to pump and distribute water from the solar thermal tubes )
· Solar Production Metre ( to show & display water temperatures in cylinder & Tubes )
Any and all exposed pipe work in exposed areas ( around the Cylinder )to be insulated to deter freezing / and decrease thermal loss ,
· Carry out associated heating pipe work alterations as required and lag as / if required
· Supply and install new Cylinder emersion / and wire in
· Provide and add chemical inhibitor to system after the provision of new cylinder and re-establishment of existing gas boiler to the new cylinder
· It is our intention to re-use the main / existing circulation pumps to your old system, if a system boiler and Y plan system are existing, the existing Y plan shall not be replaced.

All the above fully fitted / installed / and fully commissioned, inclusive of a manufacturers guarantees & certificate for the Total price of
£ 4,472.00 inclusive of VAT

Can anyone tell me if this is a fair price ?

zeupater

mumsandra wrote: »

Hi, Sorry that my post isn't anything to do with this thread, but I'm not sure where else to put it. I've had a quote for Solar Thermal in the last week and it includes the Existing Equipment to be replaced / and disposed of from site
· Estimated Hot water cylinder in excess of 20 years
· Current efficiency undetermined , but not suitable for Solar thermal collection
· Inadequate for the efficient storage of large amounts of Hot water / production thereof

Recommend possible measurers to improve efficacy, the installation of a larger solar cylinder together with the following controls and equipment
· 450 by 1400 Copper Twin Coiled Insulated Hot water cylinder (Unvented) with immersions including a solar coil
· 15number evacuated tubes ( for the production of hot water from the Sun )
· Solar Pumping Station ( to pump and distribute water from the solar thermal tubes )
· Solar Production Metre ( to show & display water temperatures in cylinder & Tubes )
Any and all exposed pipe work in exposed areas ( around the Cylinder )to be insulated to deter freezing / and decrease thermal loss ,
· Carry out associated heating pipe work alterations as required and lag as / if required
· Supply and install new Cylinder emersion / and wire in
· Provide and add chemical inhibitor to system after the provision of new cylinder and re-establishment of existing gas boiler to the new cylinder
· It is our intention to re-use the main / existing circulation pumps to your old system, if a system boiler and Y plan system are existing, the existing Y plan shall not be replaced.

All the above fully fitted / installed / and fully commissioned, inclusive of a manufacturers guarantees & certificate for the Total price of
£ 4,472.00 inclusive of VAT

Can anyone tell me if this is a fair price ?

Hi

First impression is that it's pretty expensive for the kit you've mentioned ....

Do you have any further details on the capacity (litres) of the cylinder and the size of the evacuated panel tubes ? ... also, what direction would your proposed collector face and how many people would be using the DHW ?

Specifying a single 15 tube system certainly opens up a few questions ... our system has considerably more tubes and certainly a larger cylinder but performs well for it's approx SW aspect, but considering that there are panels with huge tubes I doubt that anyone could form an opinion without the details requested above ...

HTH
Z