the decline of UK manufacturing

cells

DiggerUK wrote: »

Take away the manufacturing base and what would the service industries rely on, who would pay their bills.

Transport fleets without 'stuff' to transport, isn't a good business model for those with a transport fleet is it.
Advertising agencies without 'stuff' to advertise.....how long would they last.

Service industries are reliant on manufacturing.....the Manchester model in the 19th century is proof that wealth must be manufactured. China didn't get were it is today by providing the world with banking and insurance services.

And in case nobodies noticed, Apple make 'stuff'....just not here..._

you can say the same thing for food, its vital, and without food both manufacturing and services are fooked

but we dont want food to be 20% of the economy because if food was 20% of the economy we would be a lot poorer.

manufacturing is already highly automated. the future is more automation and hopefully manufacturing will go the way of food. 1-2% of the economy and 1-2% of the jobs. That does not mean we will have less manufactured goods just like we have a lot more food today at 1% of GDP than we did in yesteryear when we were subsistence farmers

DiggerUK

It's the value of the goods we manufacture as measured by GDP that is the argument here.
Globally costs are coming down, capacity and quality is going up.

The difference between creating wealth, and creating profits is what separates manufacturing and servicing. Given the choice I'd go for manufacturing..._

Mistermeaner

I wouldn't argue for arbitrarily increasing manufacture as a portion of GDP for the sake of it but one of the major cost disadvantages the UK has is the price of energy. Let's help by lowering the cost a bit. That is all

Ideally to the point we have an energy advantage over France Germany Sweden etc so that we can better compete on an international front

antrobus

DiggerUK wrote: »

It's the value of the goods we manufacture as measured by GDP that is the argument here.
Globally costs are coming down, capacity and quality is going up.

The difference between creating wealth, and creating profits is what separates manufacturing and servicing. Given the choice I'd go for manufacturing..._

Creating profits is how you create wealth. Manufacturing profits are translated into wealth, in the same was profits from services become wealth. There is no difference.

antrobus

Mistermeaner wrote: »

I wouldn't argue for arbitrarily increasing manufacture as a portion of GDP for the sake of it but one of the major cost disadvantages the UK has is the price of energy. Let's help by lowering the cost a bit. That is all

Ideally to the point we have an energy advantage over France Germany Sweden etc so that we can better compete on an international front

Eurostat numbers for Electricity prices for industrial consumers does seem to suggest that the UK is the most expensive in Europe.

http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

Creating profits is how you create wealth. Manufacturing profits are translated into wealth, in the same was profits from services become wealth. There is no difference.

I agree.

There is absolutely no difference in economic terms between making a bunch of Barbie dolls for sale across Europe and a bunch of adverts for Barbie dolls for sale across Europe except for the fact that the latter activity probably adds more value.

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

I agree.

There is absolutely no difference in economic terms between making a bunch of Barbie dolls for sale across Europe and a bunch of adverts for Barbie dolls for sale across Europe except for the fact that the latter activity probably adds more value.

Nearly 500,000 people used to make Appley products out in just one factory complex in China.

I should imagine an office of a couple of hundred people could handle Apples' marketing needs in UK if not in Western Europe.

Good ad execs can deliver results and thus get well paid I agree. The question I have is are we concentrating wealth to fewer individuals here as well as geographically.

The majority of ad companies operating in UK are also based in London.

Does it really matter if wealth is concentrated though? Perhaps we should be content that one or two regions subsidise all the others?

Generali

kabayiri wrote: »

Does it really matter if wealth is concentrated though? Perhaps we should be content that one or two regions subsidise all the others?

Traditionally it has never been an issue although a sector of the Scottish political classes seem to be determined to make it one despite them being beneficiaries of the largess of Londoners!

It is hard to see what politicians can do to reduce the UK's reliance on London as a centre of wealth and income generation. It really is up to individuals to get off their 'Aris and start up businesses which will enrich both themselves and their communities.

kinger101

kabayiri wrote: »

Nearly 500,000 people used to make Appley products out in just one factory complex in China.

I should imagine an office of a couple of hundred people could handle Apples' marketing needs in UK if not in Western Europe.

Good ad execs can deliver results and thus get well paid I agree. The question I have is are we concentrating wealth to fewer individuals here as well as geographically.

The majority of ad companies operating in UK are also based in London.

Does it really matter if wealth is concentrated though? Perhaps we should be content that one or two regions subsidise all the others?

Would you rather earn median wage in the UK, or median wage in China? We can't all be CEO of WPP, but stacking shelves in Aldi seems preferable to inhaling toxic fumes 12 hours a day in an Apple factory (them some more when you go home because Chinese cities are enveloped in smog).

Generali

kinger101 wrote: »

Would you rather earn median wage in the UK, or median wage in China? We can't all be CEO of WPP, but stacking shelves in Aldi seems preferable to inhaling toxic fumes 12 hours a day in an Apple factory (them some more when you go home because Chinese cities are enveloped in smog).

In Shanghai, the place closest to having a standard of living most posters would find reasonable in China, the median household income is £5,500 or thereabouts. In the UK it is, what, about £27,500?