Another thread on BTL

CLAPTON

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I'll remind you next time you are moaning about "human rights" or your favourite, EU law, of this very post

Rule of law is one thing. Doing this when they haven't even found what law it contravenes yet is something else!

I am in favour of scrapping the human rights act: I'm glad you are coming round to share my view.

However, I believe the existing laws should be applied without favour to all the people equally whether I like them or not.

If they can't find a law that has been broken then presumably they will fail at considerable cost to themselves.

Why are you upset about them throwing their own money away?

Graham_Devon

CLAPTON wrote: »

I am in favour of scrapping the human rights act: I'm glad you are coming round to share my view.

I know. You have moaned about it enough - until this thread where it may back up your views that is.

Just a shame you couldn't see this before jumping straight in with another silly comment.

kinger101

antrobus wrote: »

It does seem a bit of stretch to me.

It may well be a "fundamental financial business principle" that "income less costs equals profit", but it is also a fundamental financial business principle that taxable profits are often calculated by different rules to accounting profits, and that the taxable profits of a property business are calculated on a different basis to other businesses. (It has always been thus, ever since the days of Schedule A).

Taxable profits are calculated on a different basis to accounting profits, but usually the differences are timing. This isn't taxing profit though. It's taxing turnover.

leveller2911

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

The premise for a challenge is a good one. It is well established in all other areas of public policy regarding business taxation that profit equals income minus costs.

This is no different than the long established premise that National Insurance contributions contribute to our entitlement to benefits and the State Pension.

Yet the self employed pay class 2 and 4 but the class 4 NI contributions (9% of any profit over £8k) do not go towards any entitlement to benefits or pension.

Its a tax pure and simple and Governments will tax where and how they wish so a bunch of whinging landlords won't change it..

Ain't life a b*tch..

CLAPTON

Graham_Devon wrote: »

I know. You have moaned about it enough - until this thread where it may back up your views that is.

Just a shame you couldn't see this before jumping straight in with another silly comment.

no comment on the rule of (existing) law being applied to all people without favour?

kinger101

leveller2911 wrote: »

This is no different than the long established premise that National Insurance contributions contribute to our entitlement to benefits and the State Pension.

Yet the self employed pay class 2 and 4 but the class 4 NI contributions (9% of any profit over £8k) do not go towards any entitlement to benefits or pension.

Its a tax pure and simple and Governments will tax where and how they wish so a bunch of whinging landlords won't change it..

Ain't life a b*tch..

You'll have to explain yourself. BTW, entitlement to the State Pension does require NI contributions so you're wrong anyway. But your analogy has washed completely over my head.

leveller2911

kinger101 wrote: »

You'll have to explain yourself. BTW, entitlement to the State Pension does require NI contributions so you're wrong anyway. But your analogy has washed completely over my head.

Hamish posted a premise that tax is based on profit and has been for a long time but the government intended to tax turnover instead which LL believe is unfair.

My anology was based on the current NI system where we are told our benefit entitlement and pension entitlement was based on our NI contributions when in fact they aren't.Forget Class2 for a moment which do count towards benefit/pension entitlement.

The self employed pay Class 4 NI at 9% of their profit . This class of NI contributions do not go towards any entitlement so its a tax ,pure and simple.

My point being NI class 4 are in fact not NI they are a tax , is that "fair"?.

Hence lifes a b*tch so LL should stop whinging.

Thrugelmir

leveller2911 wrote: »

Hamish posted a premise that tax is based on profit and has been for a long time but the government intended to tax turnover instead which LL believe is unfair.

Not a tax on turnover as there no correlation between income and interest paid.

Nor is it turnover it's income.

CLAPTON

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Not a tax on turnover as there no correlation between income and interest paid.

Nor is it turnover it's income.

the exiting system is that you are taxed on the profit which is

rental income less
-mortgage interest
-less wear and tear (if furnished)
-less other costs (advertising, safety checks repairs)

the new system will be
taxed on
rental income less
-wear&tear (if furnished by actual spend)
-less other costs

plus a tax credit at basic rate if your total income based on the new 'profit' defintion is less than 40% tax level

so neither a turnover tax nor income only either

chucknorris

CLAPTON wrote: »

the exiting system is that you are taxed on the profit which is

rental income less
-mortgage interest
-less wear and tear (if furnished)
-less other costs (advertising, safety checks repairs)

the new system will be
taxed on
rental income less
-wear&tear (if furnished by actual spend)
-less other costs

plus a tax credit at basic rate if your total income based on the new 'profit' defintion is less than 40% tax level

so neither a turnover tax nor income only either

Bit more detail:

Landlords will be able to obtain relief as follows:

in 2017 to 2018 the deduction from property income (as is currently allowed) will be restricted to 75% of finance costs, with the remaining 25% being available as a basic rate tax reduction
in 2018 to 2019, 50% finance costs deduction and 50% given as a basic rate tax reduction
in 2019 to 2020, 25% finance costs deduction and 75% given as a basic rate tax reduction
from 2020 to 2021 all financing costs incurred by a landlord will be given as a basic rate tax reduction

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/restricting-finance-cost-relief-for-individual-landlords/restricting-finance-cost-relief-for-individual-landlords