Portal Financial Services

Ian011

Portal_Financial wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]Thank you for highlighting that to us. I will double check the situation with the clients’ own provider “access charges” as this is not something we were aware of. If we need to change to an 033 or 0800 or local number then we will do so.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I can confirm that we don’t put any “service charge” on the 0845 numbers (or any of our numbers) and were under the impression this was local rate for everyone.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The last thing we want to do is put anyone off contacting us, or to cause any unnecessary phone charges to people – and we offer to phone the client back as a matter of course in case they are worried about their phone bill (even if they have called on our 01634 number).[/FONT]

0845 numbers ceased to be 'local rate' in 2004. Both Ofcom and ASA issued a note about this in 2005. See: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20080728101959/http:/www.cap.org.uk/cap/news_events/news/2005/Stop+the+call+confusion.htm

All 084, 087 and 09 numbers are premium rate. The premium is the additional Service Charge paid to the benefit of the called party and their telecoms provider. The Service Charge is set entirely by your choice of 0845 number. The Service Charge for your 0845 number is 5p per minute. See: http://checkit.uboss.com/. Your telecoms provider will have done very well out of this over the years. Callers also pay an Access Charge set by their own telecoms provider. See http://www.ukcalling.info/. The Access Charge is up to 12p per minute from landlines or up to 45p per minute from mobiles.

Most organisations have swapped their 084 and 087 numbers over to the matching 034 or 037 number. Calls to 03 numbers are inclusive from landlines and from mobiles, else charged at 'geographic rate' - the same as calling 01 and 02 numbers. There is no Service Charge. Ofcom introduced these 03 numbers and the rules on their call costs in 2007.

Most people call 01, 02 and 03 numbers using an inclusive allowance and therefore incur no incremental cost for the call. Very few choose to pay a per-minute rate for these calls.

greenglide

Most organisations have swapped their 084 and 087 numbers over to the matching 034 or 037 number.

From the significant number of 0845 numbers still seen I find it difficult to accept that "most" organisations have changed but, of course, I have no proof.

Most people call 01, 02 and 03 numbers using an inclusive allowance and therefore incur no incremental cost for the call. Very few choose to pay a per-minute rate for these calls.

again I would have thought this was "many" rather than "most".

A number of call plans imclude 0845 and 0870 numbers - the BT ones do.

It is always useful to try the same number with an 0345 or 0370 first, they never allocate the same number with different prefixes to different customers.

And everyone uses saynoto0870.com to find alternatives, don't they! It has 0845 and 0870 as well.

Ian011

greenglide wrote: »

From the significant number of 0845 numbers still seen I find it difficult to accept that "most" organisations have changed but, of course, I have no proof.

Following Cabinet Office Guidance published on 26 December 2013, all central government departments and their agencies and almost all local authorities have changed their 0845 lines over to cheaper numbers. In most cases this is either the matching 0345 number or a new 0300 number.

All retailers, traders and passenger transport companies are required by Regulation 41 of the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 to use numbers starting 01, 02, 03 or 080 for post-sales helplines. The regulations were published by BIS on 13 December 2013 and came into force on 13 June 2014.

Exemptions to those regulations include gambling, sale or rental of property, roundsmen on a regular delivery route, vending machines and package travel. Most companies in these sectors have nevertheless changed their numbers.

All financial services, including banks and insurance companies, are required by FCA regulations to use numbers starting 01, 02, 03 or 080 for contact by existing customers. The regulations were published by the FCA in July 2015 and came into force on 26 October 2015.

I would guess that the overall monthly number of call minutes to 084 and 087 numbers has declined by at least 70% over the last two years.

All NHS services are required to use numbers starting 01, 02, 03 or 080. The Department of Health banned the use of 087 and 09 numbers in 2005 and extended the ban in 2009 to cover all numbers that cost more to call than 01 and 02 numbers (e.g. 084 numbers, etc).

The are many cases where the number has changed but third-party websites still promote the old number. Floodline changed from an 0845 to the matching 0345 number on 4 February 2014. Thousands of websites still show the old 0845 number. Samaritans changed from an 0845 number to 116123 on 22 September 2015. Tens of thousands of websites still show the old 0845 number. The same issue affects numbers for HMRC, DWP, Victim Support, NHS Direct (in England, now 111), NHS 24 (in Scotland, now 111), PSNI (now 101), TPS, FPS, MPS, Citizen's Advice Consumer Helpline, National Rail Enquiries and many others.

greenglide wrote: »

again I would have thought this was "many" rather than "most".

Telecoms providers are coy about releasing certain details about their business, but it doesn't take much to find out that more than 95% of calls made to 01, 02 and 03 numbers are made as part of an inclusived calls allowance.

The remainder of calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers are made outside of an inclusive call plan and in many cases the caller would have saved money if they had a more appropriate call plan. Making weekday calls is expensive if you only have a weekend call plan.

greenglide wrote: »

A number of call plans include 0845 and 0870 numbers - the BT ones do.

These are non-inclusive from mobiles and the trend will be for these to become non-inclusive from landlines. When you call an 084 number your provider has to pay out up to £4.20 per hour to the organisation that you called and their telecoms provider. For 087 numbers this is up to £7.80 per hour.

BT makes money from the Service Charge paid by callers on other networks when numbers hosted by BT are called. BT is the largest supplier of 0845 and 0870 numbers to businesses and a much smaller player in the market for other 084 and 087 numbers.

BT's sales pitch to businesses includes the information that calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers are 'free' from BT landlines. Less is said about the role of the Service Charge or of BT customers who call these numbers being subsidised. Nothing is said about the cost of calling these numbers from other landline providers or from mobiles.

Other providers make money from the 084 and 087 numbers that they host for various organisations, but not enough to give free calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers to all of their retail customers. These other landline providers understand how callers are effectively being conned by BT and they no longer include calls to premium numbers in their allowances. Among them are Co-op and TalkTalk. Callers on these networks pay the Service Charge for the calls they make. This is the right thing to do.

greenglide wrote: »

It is always useful to try the same number with an 0345 or 0370 first, they never allocate the same number with different prefixes to different customers.

Ofcom rules in place since 2007 ensure that 034 and 037 numbers can be used only by the organisation that already uses the matching 084 or 087 number.

greenglide wrote: »

And everyone uses saynoto0870.com to find alternatives, don't they! It has 0845 and 0870 as well.

The need to use this site is in decline.

You'll need it for:
- public services that haven't complied with the Cabinet Office guidance
- retailers, traders and passenger transport companies that haven't complied with the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013
- banks and insurance companies that haven't complied with the FCA regulations introduced in 2015
- customer service lines for companies in the gambling sector that have failed to realise their 084 or 087 number is premium rate
- sales lines for companies (in all sectors, especially ticket offices and agencies for cinemas, theatres and sporting events) that have failed to realise their 084 or 087 number is premium rate
- a number of charity helplines (often using 0844 or 0845 numbers and incorrectly advertised as being 'free' or 'local rate')
- a few employment agencies and HR departments
- various other users.

If you're unable or unwilling to pay 15p per call to call 101, you can also look up an alternative 01, 02, 03 or 080 number.

Usage of 084 and 087 numbers for sales lines is a well-known 'sales prevention technique'. The realisation as to the true nature of these numbers is dawning, aided by the clarity given by the requirement since 1 July 2015 to separately declare the applicable Service Charge.

Some usage of 084 or 087 numbers is engrained, and in these cases it may take criticism in the media to ram the various points home, e.g.
- http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/dec/01/nspcc-apologises-premium-rate-phone-number-christmas-appeal
- http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/14/national-lottery-operator-greedy-foolish-0844-phone-number-use