Need a software recommendation for Trust tax self assessment

xylophone

http://www.cii.co.uk/knowledge/resources/articles/new-tax-year-for-trusts-trustees-and-beneficiaries/40936

First of all make sure that you understand what type of Trust this is. Read the Trust Deed.

You say that the Trust holds "your mother's shares in a family building company".

Do you mean that your mother left these shares to a Trust in her will?

Or that your mother is living, and has made a gift into Trust from which she can benefit? ( Settlor interested Trust)

Or that another family member's will left his shares in a Trust of which your mother is the only named beneficiary but that whether or not she receives any income etc is at the discretion of the Trustees?

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/420057/sa107-notes-2015.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/trusts-taxes/trustees-tax-responsibilities

timmeroo

I don't have the Deed of Trust so I've no idea.
The Tax Return Notice refers to it as 'Janet Hammond 2006 Disc Settlement' sent from HMRC Trusts & Estates - so they should know what it is. My mother is still alive. She simply set up a Trust 10 yrs ago into which she 'gifted' her company shareholding in order to negate IHT, I think, so that after 7 years they could be taken out and be divided between me and my brother - the Trustees. Only, come the 7 yrs, with my mother not so on the ball the Trust wasn't on the radar and it wasn't until we took over her finances last year with her diagnosis of dementia that we were reaquainted with the damn thing - and now we have all this palaver. They are shares, they don't make a return. I dare say they will have gone up in value but we have never recieved a dividend or any other monetary payment from the trust; NO Income has arisen from this Trust - period.
I do remember filing a Tax Return in the first year and also spoke to hmrc then who simply put it on hold for a number of years.
In addition I rang HMRC Nottingham office this very morning and spoke to a chap simply to ask which box I should tick and he was also none the wiser and has booked me for a call back after christmas - what a shambles they are. I don't see that I need to be paying out for prof advice for something I haven't made any income from. I merely seek to submit a lot of zero's to fulfil THEIR requirement of a returned Tax Return.
Perhaps I don't tick any boxes and simply send it as a zero Return with my name and UTR on it - they must have all the details of it anyway, afterall they sent the out the damn Notice. At least then, I will have done what they asked of me.

xylophone

I don't have the Deed of Trust so I've no idea.

so they should know what it is

You are a Trustee so actually you should know what it is.

Was your mother also a Trustee?

Presumably the Deed of Trust was drawn up by your mother's solicitor - does he have a copy or indeed the original?

It seems to be that in your clueless state, you should be taking professional advice.

Below may be relevant as to why HMRC have contacted you after ten years?

https://www.taxation.co.uk/articles/2008/11/07/1372/discretionary-trusts-ten-year-itch

timmeroo

Hmm - well its a Discretionary Trust thats what I know and I never had this hassle when I submitted a Return back in the days of paper Returns - but a DT doesn't seem to figure in hmrc guidance here;

we did re-approach and see the chap who set it up (who our accountant recommended), about closing the Trust and he was not very helpful at all - all he did was cough and splutter in our faces. Anyway I'll also see what the callback after Xmas reveals and can only thank you for your time and suggestions - most helpful.
with Festive Felicitations

xylophone

https://www.cchdaily.co.uk/inheritance-tax-trusts-trust-taxman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_of_trusts_(United_Kingdom)

may also be worth a look.

Heedtheadvice

I am glad xylophone had come to your aid too!

Some of your statements do make me concerned that you may not be appreciating the "trust" relationships.

For any trust everything is the responsibility of the trustees, from initiation through to trust closure. If you are a trustee you are jointly responsible with other trustees.

As a beneficiary too (maybe just in the long term) that can sort of cloud the issue in one's mind. Any gains,losses or income for trust tax refers to the trust as an entity not what you personally (as a beneficiary) may have received. Any payments due to the taxman come out of the trust, administered by the trustees, not your personal income or capital.

I do get the impression that in practice you have perhaps not grasped what the trustees duties are and therefore might just be digging a hole for the trust and maybe your legal position as a trustee (with your other trustee).

You need to take steps to ensure you are fulfilling your obligations and hmrc realistically cannot advise you on that and that is why I agree with xylophone that professional advice seems appropriate. You as an individual do not pay anything, the trust pays.....Though obviously that may impact on the beneficiaries eventually.

Try your own solicitor for starters (or your accountant if you still value his/her recommendations) to get some guidance and try and find the trust deed for starters. It will no doubt cost the trust but you may have little alternative.

timmeroo

I thank you again for your good words and appreciate your help in this matter - yes clearly I have not understood the situation. I shall endeavour to sort it and hopefully report back in due course once I know what is where and where is what. Have a merry xmas.