How serious is this?

Halle71

In a nutshell.
My brother and Evil sister-in-law each have a business. He is a freelancer, she has a business offering a service. They want to buy a house but their accounts don't show enough income.
So they 'sell' their businesses and someone gives them 'fake' pay checks / payslips. Not sure how they executed this but they admitted it to my other brother and SIL. Who happen to be a policeman and an accountant.

I know it's mortgage fraud but what could be the outcome? I will speak to police brother but I have to be careful as Evil SIL has done a good job trying to tear our family apart.

They now plan to move again (after only being in the house for 4 months!!) and have asked my parents for £50k which they have agreed to give them but could this money be at risk if they get caught?

It's all very fishy but Evil SIL is certifiably crazy so nothing surprises me any more and I want to protect my parents. There is more to this story but this is the part for this board.

Thrugelmir

Take one chance too many and you'll get found out. With collusion it's virtually impossible to stop fraud. The more lies you spin though the bigger the web you create for yourself to get trapped by. As historical data remains on file.

What's the £50k for? Have they overstepped the mark.....

ACG

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/obtaining_mortgage_fraud/

Chances of prison is unlikely when its a one off. Probably worse case scenario is they find themselves on a central list for fraud and struggle to get credit for the forseable - mobile phones, credit cards etc.

However what they are doing is not borderline fraud it is full on. Certain lenders will pick up on this on application before documents are even sent in. Sending in payslips would just be hanging themselves. This is something lenders are cracking down on. I would say think carefully.

Halle71

The £50k is because they have found out that my other brother and I were given money when we moved last year. They have been battling with the family for 3 years and my father doesn't trust her so they were not given it. But he is very sick and doesn't want to die with my brother feeling bitter towards him.

The other suspicion my accountant SIL has, is money laundering. The businesses were bought by someone who has been a director with Evil SIL in several other businesses, now dissolved.
Even in the business that has just been sold him and her become a director and resign alternatively 6 times. She doesn't appear to do anything, my brother doesn't earn much and yet they do have money. They met online and married within months 5 years ago and 3 years ago fell out with the family. The whole thing stinks and I am worried about my previously honest, yet very naive brother.

Halle71

Thanks for that link ACG.

Voyager2002

Yes, of course the £50K would be at risk, but from your later post it sounds as if it would be a gift anyway.

By the sound of things your brother and his wife have already managed to get a mortgage and buy a property, so their 'creative accounting' must have worked. If your parents now wish to give them money to help reduce their mortgage then they are free to do so, and that might or might not improve the relationship with their son. I cannot imagine that they would ever be in trouble for the misdeeds of your brother and his wife. Realistically, I cannot imagine that the money would ever be returned, but that could well be true of the money they gave you.

Halle71

They did buy that house successfully in August 2015 with the fake docs but, oddly, they are selling it and moving again. I have heard (second hand) that it's because they have been told that the extension they planned to build would be difficult, but this seems quite far fetched and a very expensive mistake.
And of course there will now be more forms to fill in and documents to produce

I guess the money is kind of seperate and it would be a gift, but it would upset my dad if it got taken away and not used towards a house. If that makes sense. I'm a bit muddled, it's been a day of revelations.....

daisyfrau

If you don't mind me saying - what are you planning to do about all this?

With regards the money - I think you're off-base (maybe your resentment toward SIL is clouding you?). You yourself, and your other brother received money from your parents, why shouldn't they? What does it matter whether they spend it on a house or not or gamble it away - it's their money once they receive it. Yiu say your dad is giving them the money in an attempt to mend the relationship with his son - he should be free to do so. Assuming he has mental capacity, your dad can do what he likes with his money.

I can only speak to what you've shared on the forum - you do say there is more to the story. But on the basis of what you've shared that's my 5p.

I think the real issue is the ethics of whether you sell out your brother for fraud and what that might do to the family?

Halle71

I can't see a situation where I would report them for fraud.
If they were friends or my other brother I would advise them not to rush into anything with the new house - count your blessings you haven't been caught but please don't try it again, especially so quickly. Don't draw attention to yourselves.

My dad has very high morals and is OCD like with financial matters. I suspect now he knows he won't give them the money anyway. And yes, I am bitter. They haven't spoken to my parents for three years and through many health problems, but now they want money they are constantly emailing. Yet didn't send a birthday card to him two days before their first request.

Voyager2002

It is entirely possible that they obtained their mortgage legally: the process of re-structuring a business may involve arrangements that look like fraud to those who do not know how this things may be done.

Anyway, if this couple sell their home so soon after buying they can be sure that all the documents will be examined closely, since their behaviour would be unusual. By the sound of things a great deal could go wrong. Your father might consider standing aside until either this transaction has been completed successfully; or they have decided to put their plans to move 'on ice' for a year or so, in which case I am sure they would to have part of their mortgage paid off.

amnblog

Any of us in a regulated position has a duty to report suspicious cases, otherwise we can be prosecuted.

If this happened as you suggest it is fraud pure and simple.

Telling relatives in the occupations quoted adds stupidity to the list of charges.