Apex CCA Request Advice

hd216

Hi All,

Brief intro -

My OH made some silly mistakes financially when she was at university some 10 years ago and still has a number of outstanding debts.

I've managed to help her prioritise these debts and shes now paid off an outstanding credit card still with the original creditor which was particularly high interest, so that's a start!

Two of the other outstanding debts are with collection agencies and have a sub £200 or so balance so will just let them run their course as by the time the letter game is played the ongoing payments will cover the outstanding balances.

There is another however with Apex with a more substantial balance on it of around £800 or so. The debt was originally for a credit card (I believe with Lloyds off the top of my head). This debt does not appear on any of her credit reports so I believe (based on what she can remember about the debt, and also as per phonecall later on the defaults have dropped off

Looking through the forums, we've decide to try our luck with a CCA request on this.

This is the first letter, sent to Apex on 15/08/2015
*whoops now realise I forgot to update one of the old templates for the change in the credit act

Dear Sir/Madam

Apex Reference: XXXXXXXX, Account Number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest or charges applied.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77-79], I am entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account on request.

I enclose a payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

*I understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

Having not heard anything for several months and given them plenty of time to respond, we decided to send a follow up letter on 06/11/2015 - during this time payments were still being made.

Dear Sir/Madam

Apex Reference: XXXXXXXX, Account Number: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

With reference to the above agreement, on the 15/08/15 I submitted a request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, signed for as received on 24/08/15.

I draw your attention to the fact that as of yet you have failed to acknowledge the request nor respond with the required documentation in a reasonable timescale.

I remind you of the consequences of non-compliance:
(4)If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a)he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

As you continue to be in default of this request, I hereby inform you of my intent to suspend all further direct debit payments until such a time when you are able to provide the required response.

Yours faithfully

Being the impatient kind, my OT phoned them yesterday (despite me urging her to do everything via post for some form of paper trail) and after a half hour conversation was told that they were acting on behalf of Cabot to collect the debt and were having difficulty getting the necessary documents as the debt was over 10 years old.
She again repeated to the Apex agent that she intended to stop payments, to which the agent responded that they "strongly suggest you don't".

In essence, what we are looking for now is some suggestions on what to do as a next stage:

Is it wise to (as threatened) withhold payment and cross fingers that the CCA request cannot be fulfilled?
Propose a full and final settlement amount?
Continue paying?

fermi

hd216 wrote: »

Is it wise to (as threatened) withhold payment and cross fingers that the CCA request cannot be fulfilled?
Propose a full and final settlement amount?
Continue paying?

That is a judgement call you have to make, and which honestly is always exceptionally hard to second guess which is the best option.

hd216

Assuming payments were stopped and down the road a cca was miraculously produced, what is the worst case outcome?

Would they pick payments up where left off, or would they be more inclined to 'punish' for trying our luck?

sourcrates

hd216 wrote: »

Assuming payments were stopped and down the road a cca was miraculously produced, what is the worst case outcome?

Would they pick payments up where left off, or would they be more inclined to 'punish' for trying our luck?

The first option, it's not personal, you are dealing with a financial institution to whom you are just an account number.

If they are "having trouble finding it" you are perfectly entitled to cease payments until they do provide what you've asked for.

It's a gamble, I agree, companies generally keep documents for 6 years, some a bit longer, for a ten year old debt, it's unlikely they will have it, in my opinion.

hd216

Thanks both

I'm personally trying to persuade the OH that the gamble would probably work in her favor given how old the debt is.

I'm guessing having read a few similar threads (albeit older legislation etc) that when payments are stopped, she'll more than likely receive a few threatening sounding letters warning of the possibility of taking legal action, recovery etc.
From what I understand, they are nothing more than begging letters and can be ignored safely until such a point (if it ever happens) a CCA is produced?

sourcrates

hd216 wrote: »

Thanks both

I'm personally trying to persuade the OH that the gamble would probably work in her favor given how old the debt is.

I'm guessing having read a few similar threads (albeit older legislation etc) that when payments are stopped, she'll more than likely receive a few threatening sounding letters warning of the possibility of taking legal action, recovery etc.
From what I understand, they are nothing more than begging letters and can be ignored safely until such a point (if it ever happens) a CCA is produced?

That is correct, it's unenforceable until you receive what you asked for, however long that may be.

hd216

One final thing to ask -

If a CCA request isn't forthcoming, I was pondering the merits of suggesting a minimal or token final settlement. Would offering one (and hoping it was accepted) almost as an insurance policy that this cant come back and bite in the future? (I'm thinking mainly as a reassurance for the OH that she doesn't have to keep worrying about it turning up on the doorstep for the next however many years and then shes back to square one)


I know its been asked before, but answers have been along the lines of 'why pee money up the wall'. I'm assuming if one was proposed and accepted by Apex then once paid no further action could be taken if the CCA did resurface?
Thanks again for all the help!

sourcrates

hd216 wrote: »

One final thing to ask -

If a CCA request isn't forthcoming, I was pondering the merits of suggesting a minimal or token final settlement. Would offering one (and hoping it was accepted) almost as an insurance policy that this cant come back and bite in the future? (I'm thinking mainly as a reassurance for the OH that she doesn't have to keep worrying about it turning up on the doorstep for the next however many years and then shes back to square one)


I know its been asked before, but answers have been along the lines of 'why pee money up the wall'. I'm assuming if one was proposed and accepted by Apex then once paid no further action could be taken if the CCA did resurface?
Thanks again for all the help!

Yes full and final means just that, national Debtline have an excellent template letter on there website for this purpose, I'd be tempted to save up the money till they tell you one way or another, if they have the paperwork or not.

swampduck

You could always tell them that when the CCA turns up - you will be happy to recommence payments at that point in time!!
It's been done and CCAs have turned up at a later date - if it happens deal with it then otherwise hang on to your money.:whistle:

Swampy

National_Debtline

Hi hd


In my experience, debt collectors will either locate the original paperwork fairly quickly or not at all. Previous owners of the debt will not hold on to information any longer than is strictly necessary and as a debt gets older, the associated paperwork can become scarcer.


I would say that the conditions are good for some sort of nominal full and final settlement offer - Apex may be happy to take anything if the alternative is hunting in vain for the CCA agreement. Using our sample letter (see below) would give your partner a way of wrapping up the matter definitively, even if Apex were to subsequently locate the original paperwork.


https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/24%20EW%20Full%20and%20final%20settlement%20offers/Default.aspx


Dennis
@natdebtline

hd216

Thanks again for the replies -

Dennis, I think this will probably be the route that she would be most inclined to take. Shes a worrier so having some form of final resolution on paper would be much more appealing.

From peoples experience, what sort of figure would Apex (or any DCA) be likely to accept for a settlement offer on an ~ £800 outstanding balance?