To boost renewables in the economy....

antrobus

chris_m wrote: »

Maybe North America has fewer NIMBYs?

North America clearly has fewer NIMBYs per km2.:)

Martyn1981

Generali wrote: »

I've not done the sums but I suspect that the UK would be better off subsidising warmer climes to put in solar and reaping the benefit of cheaper LNG that results.

I'd have to doubt that. Farm scale PV (at £80/MWh) in the UK is coming in at a similar cost to gas generation, and LNG costs quite a lot more than 'normal' (Norwegian) gas.

Looks like UK PV (including domestic PV with a sensible subsidy reduction) could become cheaper than on-shore wind this decade.

Mart.

Martyn1981

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

The title says it all really. Should people with solar panels, who are in receipt of feed in tariff subsidies (paid for by all electricity bill payers), be encouraged onto electricity plans that have 100% generation from renewables or lose their tariff subsidies?

Thoughts?

Will the opposite apply too? Will those that make no effort to generate clean leccy, better insulate their properties, or invest in more efficient products, be 'encouraged' onto fossil fuel only energy tariffs?

Mart.

MFW_ASAP

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I'd have to doubt that. Farm scale PV (at £80/MWh) in the UK is coming in at a similar cost to gas generation, and LNG costs quite a lot more than 'normal' (Norwegian) gas.

Looks like UK PV (including domestic PV with a sensible subsidy reduction) could become cheaper than on-shore wind this decade.

Mart.

On this particular forum, we like to see statements like this backed up with links to proof.....

Given that in winter, the UK receives on average 1kw/h of sunlight per day. How can the cost of kitting out commercial sized solar panels compare wih traditional power generation when solar farms spend most of their time not producing anything?

Martyn1981

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

On this particular forum, we like to see statements like this backed up with links to proof.....

Some would argue that I post too many links and too much information on this forum. But okey dokey. Here's a Wiki link, bit old, 2010 figures, that has the average price of gas generation in the UK at £55-£110/MWh. It also shows PV farms at £125-£180, on-shore wind at £80-£110 and off-shore wind at £150-£210.

And here's a link to this years CfD auction, showing how far (and how fast) we've come, with PV farms winning contracts at £79.23/MWh to supply in 2016/17. Also on-shore wind at £79.23, and off-shore wind at £119.89 (2017/18).

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Given that in winter, the UK receives on average 1kw/h of sunlight per day. How can the cost of kitting out commercial sized solar panels compare wih traditional power generation when solar farms spend most of their time not producing anything?

I think you're being a bit harsh on intermittent renewables. They all have their weak points, and that's why we need a good mix to cover highs and lows. For instance, in the winter, wind generation is higher than in the summer, and in the summer PV can help with lower wind generation, so they fit together very nicely, so long as you look at the big picture, and don't try to bash each one individually with what it doesn't do, rather than what it does do.

Mart.

michaels

BBC News a good enough source?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34883224

Everywhere solar prices are tumbling. Thierry Lepercq, CEO of the Paris-based Solaire Direct, said (controversially) that large-scale ground-mounted solar could already be built without subsidy even in a country like in the UK.

cells

michaels wrote: »

BBC News a good enough source?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34883224

thats good news hopefully george will read that bbc article and cut the solar subsidies to zero rather than what its being cut to in jan

Martyn1981

michaels wrote: »

BBC News a good enough source?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34883224

Good enough for me.

As the article mentions, CSP with molten salt already has 'built in' storage, so despite being more expensive than PV now, as a package it has great value.

I'm not sure were the cut off point for CSP is, I know Spain has some, and it's not suitable for the UK, so certainly south of us. But talking of warmer places, India's Prime Minister is putting together a 'club of sunny places' to target investment into solar, great idea.

India's Modi puts solar firmly on G20 agenda

Mart.

Martyn1981

cells wrote: »

thats good news hopefully george will read that bbc article and cut the solar subsidies to zero rather than what its being cut to in jan

The Jan cuts relate to smaller scale demand side PV. But with regard to large scale ground mount, he's way ahead of you. The ROC subsidy ends in Apr 2016 (brought forward a year), and the government has hinted that PV will be excluded from future CfD auctions. The on-shore wind ROC ends in 2016 too, as the Tories did threaten to kill off on-shore wind if they won the election.

The higher subsidies for nuclear and off-shore wind are still safe though, I believe.

Mart.

cells

Solar and wind should never have got a CFD it saves them from the impact of destroying their own prices. A fit is better to reflect the fact that they destroy their own market. Presumably solar could be installed in negative prices with a CFD contract which of course is silly