Should solar users in receipt of FIT be encouraged onto Green Tarrifs?

EricMears

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

nope, in your eagerness to score points, you missed the salient point in those Green Party quotes:

"concentrating on areas where fuel poverty is most serious"
"to every home in designated areas"

Martyn's quote included the commitment to improving insulation etc for nine million homes. That's got to be way more than the numbers of homes experiencing 'fuel poverty'. I'm not entirely sure how many 'homes' there are in the UK but assuming a total population of around 60 million and an average occupancy of only 2 there can't be any more than 30 million homes (and very likely rather less) so the Green promise is to help something like 1 in 3 achieve their targets.

And just where are these 'designated areas' where every home (i.e those in fuel poverty plus the nearby multi-millionaires) will qualify for assistance ? Or, more to the point, where are the other areas where no such needs are expected ?

And (yet again !) the tired old complaint that only the poor and/or those who haven't made an effort to help the government achieve their obligations are having to pay a levy to subsidise solar panel installation. In fact every electricity customer has to contribute towards such levies which are in the main used to subsidies large scale wind or solar farms and nuclear reactors.

ed110220

EricMears wrote: »

Martyn's quote included the commitment to improving insulation etc for nine million homes. That's got to be way more than the numbers of homes experiencing 'fuel poverty'. I'm not entirely sure how many 'homes' there are in the UK but assuming a total population of around 60 million and an average occupancy of only 2 there can't be any more than 30 million homes (and very likely rather less) so the Green promise is to help something like 1 in 3 achieve their targets.

And just where are these 'designated areas' where every home (i.e those in fuel poverty plus the nearby multi-millionaires) will qualify for assistance ? Or, more to the point, where are the other areas where no such needs are expected ?

And (yet again !) the tired old complaint that only the poor and/or those who haven't made an effort to help the government achieve their obligations are having to pay a levy to subsidise solar panel installation. In fact every electricity customer has to contribute towards such levies which are in the main used to subsidies large scale wind or solar farms and nuclear reactors.

It's also a bit of a hoary old chestnut that only the wealthy/middle classes have been installing solar PV. Perhaps true earlier when it was a lot more expensive but more recently solar PV has been appearing on much more modest homes. In fact as I have said before at least around here it seems less expensive homes are if anything more likely to have solar than more expensive ones. Eg here Shirehampton, Bristol. Or my neighbour who is a security guard at a local shopping centre - hardly a Dr and Dr Jones using the subsidies to jet off to the Maldives.

Andy_WSM

ed110220 wrote: »

In fact as I have said before at least around here it seems less expensive homes are if anything more likely to have solar than more expensive ones. Eg here Shirehampton, Bristol. Or my neighbour who is a security guard at a local shopping centre - hardly a Dr and Dr Jones using the subsidies to jet off to the Maldives.

Just to reinforce your point...4 & a half years ago I invested nearly every penny of my savings to install Solar PV (£12.5k) and am very pleased for the regular tax free income they are returning as I am a minimum wage slave for a large supermarket. I have also invested in other (non subsidised) green initiatives (extra insulation, thermal lined curtains, heat pump, rainwater recycling) and now have an economical and comfortable home to live in meaning my paltry wage goes much further - but still not as far as the Maldives sadly

Martyn1981

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

nope, in your eagerness to score points, you missed the salient point in those Green Party quotes:

"concentrating on areas where fuel poverty is most serious"
"to every home in designated areas"

Fuel poverty is not the most serious within the homes of the middle classes who can afford the investment of solar. If the Greens had an input into the decision making around investment into solar, we wouldn't have a tariff on everyone's electricity bills, proportionally impacting the poorer in society in order to enrichen the wealthiest in society. We would have seen government investment where the poorest members of society had reduced electricity bills, not the wealthiest.

I have no problem at all with general taxation being used to help out those who need help. I doubt very much that you and your cronies were suffering from fuel poverty and so needed me and other energy users to subsidise your bills.

Once again your comments referring to the Green party don't match the policies and views stated by the Green Party.

You conveniently ignored my links to their 'Keep FiT' campaign and to Caroline Lucas' response to the FiT reduction.


On these threads you've repeatedly chosen to attack PV'ers on the grounds of 'green & ethical'.

Your abusive comments and attacks on those that have installed PV are certainly not ethical. And using your chosen metric (not mine) of the Green Party, are not green either.

You further undermined your 'green' credentials when you tried to argue for nuclear instead of PV or PV with storage.

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Wind, wave, and dare I say it, nuclear, suddenly starts to look rather inexpensive....

The Green party does not support nuclear energy.

Nuclear energy – it’s still no thanks

In recent years, the nuclear industry has tried to re-brand itself as ‘green’. As the UK’s only environmental party, the Green Party needs to set out why it still considers that nuclear is no answer to either climate change or our energy needs.

That's why I've previously questioned your support on this board for a pro-nuclear supporter, and on another thread (after you brought it up) for your support of a pro-coal (coming ice-age!) supporter.


As I said before, you certainly don't seem to be representing the Green Party, so who exactly is it that you claim to represent?

Mart.

tunnel

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Well, it looks like the votes are in and not one of the solar boys is currently using, or is planning on using a green tariff. The general consensus seems to be that they bought into solar as an investment only and are only interested in being 'green' if they get an investment return.

I think you are overlooking the fact that us solar boys are already all using a green tariff, you are forgetting that we all generate our own green electric

The fact that the government incentivised solar was just a push in the right direction

Are you now going to argue that solar isn't green?

kevin6666

tunnel wrote: »

I think you are overlooking the fact that us solar boys are already all using a green tariff, you are forgetting that we all generate our own green electric

The fact that the government incentivised solar was just a push in the right direction

Are you now going to argue that solar isn't green?

Fleets of diesel white van men put on the road to install them. People driving all over the country carrying out EPCs and solar panels made in China using processes that probably produce more CO2 than our worse power stations...and then shipping them half way round the planet...sure why not

ed110220

kevin6666 wrote: »

Fleets of diesel white van men put on the road to install them. People driving all over the country carrying out EPCs and solar panels made in China using processes that probably produce more CO2 than our worse power stations...and then shipping them half way round the planet...sure why not

Your point would be logical if you were advocating an end to industrial society and a return to horse drawn transport etc. But I expect you are not and simply trying to score a point.

Multiple studies show that solar pv over its lifetime saves many times the greenhouse gas emissions taken to manufacture and install it.

It's inevitable that a new technology will rely on old ones to get going. China derives most of its energy from coal, but is now the biggest installer of renewables so that is changing. It's the same as the first railways using horse transport in their construction, or the first coal mines using wood.