Coal in power stations to be phased out in the UK within 8-10 years

antrobus

Generali wrote: »

... yet I keep hearing how terrible it is that we don't make steel or watches or Champagne. It's a bit silly and quite innumerate.

On a point of order, there is such a thing as English sparking wine. EU rules of origin prevent it from being called 'Champagne' because it doesn't come from Champagne, but it is otherwise basically the same stuff. Some people even claim that it is better than Champagne.

Not that I would know. I'm not paying those kind of silly prices when you can get perfectly decent Prosecco for a fraction of the money.:)

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

a very convincing argument for the already converted which ignores the tariff and non tariff barriers of the EU.
The damage it has done to poorer third world countries will probably never be known or quantified but one can speculates how free trade in the goods they produce would have helped their economies and general development and maybe produced more stable and democratic institutions.

The problems of security and anti dumping and our massive capital inflows will play for many years.

Actually it does nothing of the sort.

You don't have a clear way to quantify the benefits and costs of the alternatives any more than I do.

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

On a point of order, there is such a thing as English sparking wine. EU rules of origin prevent it from being called 'Champagne' because it doesn't come from Champagne, but it is otherwise basically the same stuff. Some people even claim that it is better than Champagne.

Not that I would know. I'm not paying those kind of silly prices when you can get perfectly decent Prosecco for a fraction of the money.:)

I used the words I did quite carefully.

I've been to Chapel Down several times, Mrs Generali has given a few talks there.

antrobus

ukcarper wrote: »

Is it good to be relying on Russia for a large part of our energy.

We don't rely on Russia. Unless something has changed recently.

We import gas via pipeline from Norway and the Netherlands and via Milford Haven in the form of LNG from Qatar.

We import some crude oil from Russia, but we get more from Denmark.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/381963/crude-oil-and-natural-gas-import-origin-countries-to-united-kingdom-uk/

Generali

antrobus wrote: »

We don't rely on Russia. Unless something has changed recently.

We import gas via pipeline from Norway and the Netherlands and via Milford Haven in the form of LNG from Qatar.

We import some crude oil from Russia, but we get more from Denmark.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/381963/crude-oil-and-natural-gas-import-origin-countries-to-united-kingdom-uk/

In addition don't forget that massive amounts, game changing amounts, of LNG are about to come onstream from Aus and the US too.

Gas is already so cheap in parts of North America you can't give it away.

princeofpounds

Is it good to be relying on Russia for a large part of our energy.

We don't. Europe does, but the UK doesn't.

ukcarper

antrobus wrote: »

We don't rely on Russia. Unless something has changed recently.

We import gas via pipeline from Norway and the Netherlands and via Milford Haven in the form of LNG from Qatar.

We import some crude oil from Russia, but we get more from Denmark.

http://www.statista.com/statistics/381963/crude-oil-and-natural-gas-import-origin-countries-to-united-kingdom-uk/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gas-imports-from-russias-gazprom-giant-to-soar-after-new-centrica-deal-10248692.html, not that much at moment but with increased gas use and North Sea gas reducing were will additional gas come frome.

DiggerUK

We will probably have to wait until the lights do go out, before a sensible plan is put in place to secure electricity supplies.

Coal may not be as efficient as nuclear as we go forward, but they are both reliable.
The reliability of wind and solar is never going to get better either.
Hydro is, sadly, too small.

The business model for supply is very flawed.
The lessons from the days of The Corn Laws, alongside the arguments that ended subsidies to such organisations as British Leyland, also do not seem to have been taken on board with the cockamamie shoring up of renewables.

Coal ain't broke, why wreck it..._

Generali

ukcarper wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gas-imports-from-russias-gazprom-giant-to-soar-after-new-centrica-deal-10248692.html, not that much at moment but with increased gas use and North Sea gas reducing were will additional gas come frome.

Here for a start (either directly or indirectly by Pluto A displacing other sources of supply which then head to the UK):

http://www.woodside.com.au/Our-Business/Producing/Pages/Pluto.aspx#.Vk20PuKBi-c

Plus this little beauty here (plus her little sisters up and down the East Coast):

http://www.cheniere.com/terminals/corpus-christi-project/

LNG is a simple 'transition fuel', much less polluting than coal which provides a quick and cheap way to cut emissions along with other things including improved agricultural techniques such as not tilling the soil (agriculture is one of the great emitters of GHGs, often not measured in the EU due to the smaller size of farms and in the rest of the world due to lax reporting rules).

CLAPTON

Generali wrote: »

Actually it does nothing of the sort.

You don't have a clear way to quantify the benefits and costs of the alternatives any more than I do.

indeed, I can't quantify the benefit/costs of free trade with poor mainly black third world countries
but it seems it's a lot easier to quantify the costs/benefits of such alternatives between white caucasian european developed ones