HBOS CCA response

James3891

Hi, wonder if someone can clarify a few CCA queries.

I have Lowell's (on behalf of HBOS) chasing me for circa £1500 on a Halifax credit card taken out Feb 2006. I will be sending an SAR as i believe around £4-500 are penalty charges / interest.

I know for pre 07 to be enforceable they need to give a true copy of an agreement.

They've sent a letter saying here are the original copies but there's only the 1 basic A4 single side form from 02/06 (no general conditions )they've sent.Its only signed by me .

They've also sent a modern equivalent with an address from 6 years later and statements of account dated 2013.Its HBOS rather than just Halifax on the modern 'agreement' ofcourse.

The account defaulted Oct 2012 and i left the address on the modern 'agreement' over 6 months before default so it can't be an agreement showing terms at the end of the account.

The single 06 sheet is in small text, barely legible and has some of the sides chopped off/copied badly.This includes charges which just about show the number 5 (of £25) i assume from then.

I had some help on another forum but kind of came to a halt and i need to reply to Lowell.I was advised the no Halifax signature didn't count for much but never got a definitive answer on whether the charges being nearly chopped would make it incomplete.

It was roughly put forward that the original 06 agreement should have the 8 or so general conditions/terms pages with it as the modern attempt had (albeit with a random choice of address) and that one poor form wasn't enough.

Any help appreciated, i can do scans of the form/s if required,

Thanks, James

sourcrates

Hi,

To fully comply with a section 77-79 request from the time period you describe, the document they send you must be legible, it must contain all of the correct financial information, and contain the full prescribed terms in force at the time the account was opened.

There is no requirement to provide a signature, but all terms and conditions should be there as well.

From what you say, I would suggest what they have sent you would not comply with the above sections of the consumer credit act, and you should write back to Lowell and tell them so.

There have been legal precedents set as to what constitutes a correct responce to a CCA request pre April 2007, and it sounds as though yours doesn't meet that criteria.

fatbelly

I agree with Sourcrates except that the pre-april 2007 thing is just a bit of an additional bonus if it applies.

Even if it doesn't, the account is unenforceable until the s77-9 request is complied with, as you can read in the FCA CONC 13 rules

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13.pdf

which seems to be a new presentation though the rules stay the same

James3891

Hi just a follow on from this, i contacted Lowell and told them the one page they sent is illegible/incomplete and missing all terms in force at the time of opening therefore failing to meet the CCA request.Additionally to what i realised before the poor page mentions terms listed in section 5 onwards which i got in updated terms pages but doesn't exist in original terms.

Lowell replied stating that they had satisfied the CCA by sending a true and complete copy in their opinion and argued that HBOS systems at the time wouldn't allow me to borrow without a signed agreement.

I assume the last bit about their systems has no relevance as i'm not contesting recieving any money just asking for the specific correct documents for the CCA and is a seperate issue and would be viewed as such even in court.

This brings me onto what to do next, i'm fully convinced the CCA hasn't been met let alone it being unenforceable.The fact Lowell have stated what they sent is a true copy tells me HBOS have nothing else to send them and that one poor page is it otherwise surely they'd send more/do a better copy.

Do i now tell them i still view the agreement incomplete , unenforceable and the CCA request to be unfulfilled and hope they drop it or tell them i'd gladly state my side in court.

Are they likely to issue summons to break the impasse anyway?(Can they even get a case fully heard with a failed CCA ?) I'm content that i'd win in court but i guess there is always a chance of a mis -informed judge and the debt is only 3 years til coming off my file.

Appreciate any further advice,

James

fatbelly

James3891 wrote: »

Hi just a follow on from this, i contacted Lowell and told them the one page they sent is illegible/incomplete and missing all terms in force at the time of opening therefore failing to meet the CCA request.Additionally to what i realised before the poor page mentions terms listed in section 5 onwards which i got in updated terms pages but doesn't exist in original terms.

Lowell replied stating that they had satisfied the CCA by sending a true and complete copy in their opinion and argued that HBOS systems at the time wouldn't allow me to borrow without a signed agreement.

I assume the last bit about their systems has no relevance ...

No, that is relevant. As a pre-2007 agreement you may have an argument under s127(3) that there was not a compliant agreement signed at the time. They are saying that their response would be 'HBOS systems at the time wouldn't allow me to borrow without a signed agreement.' How someone from Lowell would know anything about the systems in place at HBOS in 2006 is a bit of a mystery.

Tell them to take court action if they think this is enforceable. You think it isn't.

If you get a court claim then legalbeagles will help you with a defence

sourcrates

Unfortunately Lowell are an unpredictable bunch, you never know which way they will go with things.
From what you describe the paperwork they have sent is next to worthless, as far as the CCA request is concerned, and you should tell them so.


Any legal document must be legible for starters, and clearly portray what it is supposed to.

My own previous experience with Lowell, is that when challenged, they have caved in, I suspect the same will happen here, but be prepared for any eventuality.

rizla_king

James3891 wrote: »

Lowell replied stating that they had satisfied the CCA by sending a true and complete copy in their opinion and argued that HBOS systems at the time wouldn't allow me to borrow without a signed agreement.

Lies and bullsheet