Getting my knees back to normal - and then keeping them that way!

moneyistooshorttomention

As per the title.

Over the last few years I've noticed my knees being a "bit awkward" sometimes (eg when walking downstairs).

I'm guessing the cartilage is deteriorating a bit?? - and probably the same again for my feet. My feet are also taking a minute or so to "settle" when I first stand up onto them from a sitting/lying position. It sorta feels like they are taking a few seconds for the bones in my feet to "lower themselves back down onto the floor" a bit iyswim. Probably the same reason - ie cartilage??

I never clicked feet might start being a bit awkward. I knew some people have knees being a bit awkward and I guess, at the back of my mind, thought "Worst case analysis would be knee replacement and then all would be sorted".

Apparently not. As talking to someone who has had a knee replacement - the knee doesn't go back to "as good as new". She said there are slight residual twinges (if not nearly as bad as it was) and she cant bend the knee any more.

So - that isn't a fallback position for me personally then....:cool:...as I intend to retain full normal motion range.

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So what does everyone else do, ie as "prevention rather than cure" in these cases?

To date - I thought that my knees no longer being required to carry me downstairs at regular intervals (courtesy of having moved to a bungalow a couple of years ago - as that was what was available for my money) might be making them "lazy". So I've just bought a stepper - and thought that if I do regular stepping sessions then that would be the equivalent of going up and down stairs umpteen times a day.

I guess what I need is:
a. Ways of strengthening my knees/legs as a whole.
b. Ways of getting the cartilage back to normal - presumably suitable diet supplements for rebuilding purposes? Not quite sure what. I have started taking fish oil supplement regularly recently as a start on that.

I probably need my knees for about another 20 years (being early 60s) - and it would worry me having them feel like that if I were in my 80s (ie in Gods Waiting Room as my mother calls it:rotfl:).

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So what do other people do to get them back to normal please?

skint_chick

Have you been to see your GP? Or a good chiropractor? It's probably best to get your knees and feet checked out professionally just to make sure that anything you do won't make it worse. I have arthritis and struggle with one knee and both feet - I find that swimming, aqua aerobic classes and the cross trainer helps as they don't put pressure on my knees and feet but have helped to make my legs stronger and improve my flexibility. Yoga also might be something you want to try, or some stretching to make sure your leg muscles don't get tight and painful.

It's worth spending the extra money on good quality cold pressed supplements with no extra additives/synthetics if you're going to use them

moneyistooshorttomention

Now that could be a good thought - ie to see a chiropractor. I'm not much of a one for conventional healthcare and distinctly unimpressed by what I've seen of the NHS here since moving (British understatement:cool:).

I think it would be worth my while to investigate re a chiropractor I can think of here. There's some sort of mechanical fault - as its just one of my knees that seems to be being awkward.

I'm so not au fait with some of the exercise stuff that I'm just off to google what a "cross trainer" is LOL.

EDIT; just googled - ah I see what they are like. I don't tend to think of myself as "gym" sort of person. Think yoga would be more up my street. I've been hunting for a suitable class to replace the one I used to go to since I moved here and haven't found one yet (think I'm waiting for someone suitable to move to the area LOL) - think I'm just going to have to start up on my own and with help of YouTube videos.

skint_chick

My chiropractor gives me exercises to do at home to help with any pain or tenderness and it is well worth the money. I would be wary of using the stepper while your knee is sore as it's going to put more pressure on the joint. There are loads of great youtube yoga videos if you don't have any local classes, make sure you invest in a good mat though. Have you looked on gumtree, in the local paper/library/leisure centre for info about yoga classes? I did a private session with a yoga teacher first to make sure the exercises in class wouldn't aggravate any of my problem areas and to get the correct positioning which was amazing.

lessonlearned

Money I think your first port of call should be your GP, not for drugs but for a referral to a podiatrist,to check out your tootsies and x Rays or scans to check out for breaks, fractures, to both your knees and feet. Also some blood tests to check for Inflammation markers, in Case you are in the early stages of arthritis.

If it's not bone related and as you suspect it is more muscular or cartilage then again you dont need to pump yourself full of drugs or steroids there are lots of thIngs you can do to help yourself.

Like you I am a firm believer in complimemtary medicines rather than going down the pill popping route but first you really do need to establish the cause of your pain and discomfort before you can begin treatment.

You will need your GPs help to get referred to the appropriate people and get the necessary tests.

In the meantime you could try topical pain relieving gels, Any ibruprofen or diclofenic based gels. Unlike oral NSAIDs they don't cause stomach problems. I use Voltarol 12 hour gel. It is good but takes a while to kick in, so allow at least weeks.

If there is Inflammation, ie if your knees feel hot or look swollen, then use ice packs. If it is just General pain and muscle stiffness then heat works wonders, a soak in a hot bath, with Epsom salts or dead sea salts. Magnesium oil also helps.

In the longer term then yes fish oils are good preventatives. I take Red Krill which is high in Omega 3. You may find glucosamine with chronditin helpful, it helps plump up thinning cartiledge.

Keeping the feet warm is crucial, so some nice fleecy or memory foam insoles and thermal socks in the winter.

As you are post menoausal you need to also protect against osteoporosis so make sure you are getting enough Vit D and Calcium. To further protect bone density you must do some weight bearing exercise, walking is fine., You don't need to start running mArathons. :rotfl:

Yoga, taichi, Pilates will gently sfretch the muscles and keep them supple and avoid tears or strains.

Watch your diet, plenty of oily fish or if you can't then, flaxseeds, nuts etc, green leafy vegetables. I knowYou are a vegetarian but watch how much wheat you are eating. It can increase inflammation, as can plants of the nightshade family and citrus fruits.

You might need to experiment a bit with what works best, it is just trial and error. The good news is that there are lots of foods, especially herbs and spices that can help reduce pain and inflammation.

Just get googling.

One last final point....,Weight.

Did you know that for each extra lb of weight we carry it exerts 4lbs of pressure our joints.

I have lost 11 lbs recently and my knees are thanking me already.

Katiehound

I would recommend an osteopath. She was the one many many years ago who got me walking when all else had failed. (When alternative therapies were almost an unknown word and I had one dead foot and one leg shorter than the other!)

Pilates would be good exercise for you- it's gentle stretching and you do it at / to your own level. The exercises were developed by Josef Pilates for rehabilition. It is about building core strength.

I have an arthritic knee- it's been like that for at least 5 years- confirmed by X ray. I too am not keen on the thought of replacement - a friend has had both done but it is a complex joint. So I am trying to keep going as long as possible. I try to go swimming every week day and have just returned to pilates. I find a class at midday is very much better than 5.30pm as I a) don't feel as tired & b) I feel the benefit of stretching for the rest of the day. Our leisure centre also has "mature mover" classes- a bit of Zumba and gentle pilates based exercise.

Oh and I am determindly sticking with the 5:2 (or 4:3) diet- that's why it is a long post today!- need to keep out of that kitchen

Meant also to say that I discovered that I need to avoid dairy, especially cheese. My finger joints used to get very stiff.

moneyistooshorttomention

Thank you;

Lots of constructive thoughts there - and I shall make a note of them all.

I did start adding in oily fish to my diet a while back - once it had struck me that EVERY member of my family has severe heart problems:eek: (or, as I put it, my "genetic inheritance" is appalling all round). I don't wish to join them in that respect:cool: - so that's already part of my diet.

Fortunately, I think my knees/feet are at "early stages" - and, as far as I'm concerned, that's as far as it goes and I want to do a "rewind" to get them back to normal. I never did have a scrap of patience with ill health personally LOL.

BTW LessonLearned - I hope the cat that adopted you is feeling well now?

belfastgirl23

I see people are recommending variously chiropracters, physios osteopaths. I'd say ask around your local area. Sporty people are particularly good as they often have muscular injuries What you need is the right person - a good masseur would also be able to help you. But you need the people who know the human body inside out and have a lot of experience of helping people like you.

I would have thought you should see your GP at least once to help you rule out other possibilities though. By all means ask for a referral but you might be waiting a while. If I were you I'd go private....

My diagnosis was to lose weight and build muscle when I had knee pain a few years ago. Also to wear shoes that align me properly (ie no real heels). Just in case any of these might apply to you. The lack of muscle sounds like it might be a real issue in any case- you're probably on the money with a lack of stairs.

As a ps, why did you jump first to thinking it was cartilage problems? Seems curiously specific

jenniewb

I don't know how far you've gotten in self treatment but I thought I'd add what I do and have been advised to do after I was diagnosed a few years back with the early stages of osteoarthritis as a result of being hypermobile mixed with exercising too much (I was wearing correct footwear- it just goes to show that kit only goes so far when it comes to protecting you!).


I get knee twinges now and then but can manage them fine (tbh I get back/hip pain and it hurts a lot more so the knee pain feels minimal in comparison!) I also find that my knees buckle a lot especially going up stairs. It happens more frequently the older I get and I imaging that's because of the hypermobility and that the muscles in my legs are weaker which is due to age (I'm not that old; still in my early 30's but the human body is in natural decline after around 25 or 30 years of age).


I was advised to build up the muscles around the knee joint. There are some parts of your cartilage that can be naturally repaired by the body if you just lay off them, eat healthily to fuel your bodies repair system and try to reduce things like stress, trying to sleep more and avoiding toxins like alcohol and so on so your body can put it's energy in to recovery rather than fighting bad things around your system.
Having said that; there are some parts of your knee cartilage which cannot be restored. Some parts which have circulation can be restored but the parts without circulation cannot. You can't alter this or change how the circulation works, it's just about how our bodies are built. In this circumstance, your only hope is to build up the muscles around the joint so the joint doesn't take all of the strain.


Exercises which are good are things like squatting and lunging BUT get some advice on how to do these types of exercises correctly first as you can do them wrong and cause further problems which could worsen things.

Other exercises are things like putting on an ankle weight, sitting in a chair (with a back; your posture needs to be correct and upright). Sit with both feet on the floor, if you can, support your thighs on the seat of the chair, legs straight downwards at right angles to your thighs.
Then, *slowly* (not fast, slowly takes more effort and does more work) lift your foot and ankle but keep your knee and thigh still until your leg shape changes from a right angle to being straight, then slowly lower until your foot is back on the floor.
It's important if you are hypermobile not to 'lock' your knees when doing this, if you find this happening, don't allow your lower leg to lift so high and when doing this exercise, always keep your thigh flat (do not lift) or you wont be working the right muscle groups.


As with any new exercises, get advice first because technique can prevent a world of problems happening!


I found other things helpful but these are a few things to start in and bare in mind about your condition, it could rectify itself, it could also get worse, it depends on the type of cartilage which has been damaged,

moneyistooshorttomention

belfastgirl23 wrote: »

As a ps, why did you jump first to thinking it was cartilage problems? Seems curiously specific

Well - it is a bit of an "educated guess" I know. Its because it feels like something is missing between the bones. Like the stuff between the joints is dried-up/gone missing to some extent. I recall that a few years back I sometimes noticed my knees making a noise when I used the stairs and I looked that up at the time - seem to recall it was called "crepitus" ? and I've probably gotten an idea in my mind from then about cartilage. The noise stopped - which, in hindsight, was a bad thing iyswim. Hence I rather forgot that..

Its true that I'd better check out exactly what the cause is for sure. I know, logically, that just because I had pinpointed exactly what was wrong on two previous occasions (and turned out to be correct - even though medics had specifically told me it was something different) that doesn't necessarily follow that I'm right on this one too. I've proved right to trust my own judgement so far - and certainly won't forget those medics who told me I hadn't got a broken bone one time, and I had to be most insistent on an x-ray and that proved I had indeed done so:cool::rotfl:.

Still - point taken and a good track record to date on diagnosing myself doesn't mean I'll be infallible at it:rotfl: - so I'd better check.

moneyistooshorttomention

Jennie,

Thank you very much for that very detailed description of exercises. I shall have to do a "trial run" on them - so I can see how they go.

Looks all the more that I need to see that chiropractor I have in mind here.

I've used chiropractors and osteopaths before - for back problems basically.

I'm far more inclined to think that will be an idea than any further encounters with the NHS here (as I've found them shocking - in the main for their tendency to "pass the buck" to and fro between themselves - which I've come to the conclusion is something that's done here in order to shove spending off their budget onto someone else's). Whatever the reason - I've been shocked on the occasions I've encountered them here to date.

Stress is also a possible factor. I hope/am cautiously optimistic that it has eased off now. But I went through a LOT of stress on first moving here (for a variety of reasons) and have spent very frequent intervals with my back "done in" yet again since moving here. I'd done my back in a few times over the many years of my life previously - but its been very very frequent since moving here. With that - I find I've got into the habit of using my arms to push and pull myself up (or into) chairs and I never used to do that. Obviously a habit I got into to help with my back and I must train myself back out of it again.

Fingers crossed that I've got things a lot more "under control" now. Much of the work on renovating my house has now been done (it felt barely habitable to start with - though someone had been living here). I "think" that the neighbours have stopped being so problematic as they were to start with (fingers crossed hard here that's the end of all that) and I certainly had no idea of the external problems that came with the house. Having said that - I don't think I would have believed it if someone had told me in advance about all that (as I'd never encountered anything like that before) - but I am cautiously optimistic that that is now sorted out.

So I can now focus more on myself at last and hopefully break bad habits/get good ones/generally feel less stressed (errrm...yes...and cut back a bit on the booze - which hasn't been excessive, but has certainly been more than I am happy about:whistle:). That will help with the toxins aspect too.

I've been struggling with losing about 2 stone of excess weight that I had prior to moving here - but all that stress has put that on the back burner and its been a "Stress again - glass of wine...another glass of wine" thing going on and lots of time spent dealing with it all (rather than going for the walk I intended to). I am hopeful now that its sorted enough that I wont be tempted into buying a bottle of wine and I will be getting out more walking (still a lot of exploring the area in the first place to do).

I've made over 2 pages of notes of suggestions thanks to various posters here and I had better look up that chiropractor contact details then as a first step I think.