Family Fraud?

Ineedadviceplease

Sorry If I'm posting in the wrong place.

Hello,

I don't know where to look for advice as I can't find any other situations like mine. My daughter is in her twenties and has ongoing mental health problems - Chronic depression, panic disorder, borderline personality disorder. She has been in debt with various catalogues/payday loans since she was eighteen. Money has always been tight for me but I don't believe in borrowing so never have.

Last year my daughter developed a gambling problem that I at the time knew nothing about. She had another breakdown in December and was admitted to hospital in January. While she was in hospital I received a letter about a loan I knew nothing about. That was when I found out what she'd done. I was down as a guarantor on a loan for her, having never signed anything.

Upon further investigation I found my daughter signed online documents with this company on both of our behalfs while she was ill. They never spoke to her on the phone or anyone pretending to be me. They simply accepted the on-line signatures.

I called them from my elderly mothers house phone to explain, which turned out to be a massive mistake. They said they wouldn't of paid out without speaking to both of us on the phone but can provide no proof that they did, because they didn't. They said if I don't accept liability they'll call the police on my daughter who had only come out of hospital that day. I got off the phone still telling them that I had no knowledge of the loan.

As they now had my elderly mothers home telephone they would phone her several times a day for a period of around two months laughing at her not understanding and her being hard of hearing. My mother was terrified as she did not understand. We ended up disconnecting her phone for a while and they went quiet.

There are now regular letters from different debt companies addressed to my daughter and myself for around £16,000 - more than double the loan amount because of the ridiculous APR. I am not willing to pay any of this as I had no knowledge of the loan and never signed anything. I am self employed and have a very low income. My daughter is unemployed on employment and support allowance because of her mental health.

I am so confused and don't know what to do, I previously spoke to the CAB briefly and even they said they have no idea. I feel like I'm in a black hole I can't get out of.

Sorry for the long post, any advice would be appreciated.

ReadingTim

You choices appear to be either to report to the loan company and police that you have been a victim of fraud and identity theft; or accept some liability and work to minimise the interest, fees etc applied, but realise that you'll have to repay at least the amount borrowed.

The harsh fact of the matter is that if every loan company rolled over and wiped out the debts of anyone and everyone who trotted out a sob-story, there'd be a lot of depressed gamblers out there. Who made complete recoveries shortly after their debts were cleared.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear.

PasturesNew

Put simply, you have only two choices:
- Pay it, to make it stop.
- Report your daughter's fraud to the police, to make it go away (for you and your mother).

The loan company cannot/will not take your word for it that you didn't know. Unless you formally report a fraud, to the police, this will never be resolved (and get you and your mother out of the firing line).

They won't just shrug and go "OK, forget it then, sorry to have troubled you".

It will only go away if you take the really hard, but correct, path of reporting your daughter for fraud. A fraud she DID commit, so it's not like you're shafting her to cover your own fraud.

Ineedadviceplease

Thank you for your advice, just to make it clear I don't expect them to say oh ok and just take my word for it. Also Tim while I appreciate what you're saying she has been on medication since she was 15 and this most recent hospitalisation was her third.
Even if all her debt was eradicated and she had no problems she wouldn't make a "full recovery" that's not how mental illness works.

determined_new_ms

Ok firstly I think you do have cause to challenge this. I used to work with people with mental health issues and was able to get one of my clients thousands written off as the bank had been unethical in loaning so much money to someone who had no income other than benefits and was clearly unwell - so unwell he did not have the capacity to understand what he was taking on.

Secondly I do think you need to report this to the Police it is fraud and people with bpd need firm boundaries. Believe me I know what I am suggesting is unthinkably hard but your daughter has to learn she crossed a line. My daughter has bpd too so I know what I am saying will break your heart but it's what I would do in your position.

I took a really hard line a few years ago with my daughter when she crosses the line. It's been tough on me emotionally but she has stopped doing the things that were just was not acceptable to me. She stole something from my house a couple of months ago. It was insignificant but I was livid (I lived through nearly a decade of her stealing from me) and I hit the roof and told her in no uncertain terms if she ever took anything from my house without my direct permission again it would be the last time she crossed my threshold. As you can imagine this went down well! But once I had set my stall out I didn't say another word. 3 days later she contacted me, admitted it and apologised and I finally trust her in my house now. No more taking my bag every time I leave a room. I have been clear this is the line and these will be the consequences. People with bpd really respond to this

ReadingTim

Ineedadviceplease wrote: »

Thank you for your advice, just to make it clear I don't expect them to say oh ok and just take my word for it. Also Tim while I appreciate what you're saying she has been on medication since she was 15 and this most recent hospitalisation was her third.
Even if all her debt was eradicated and she had no problems she wouldn't make a "full recovery" that's not how mental illness works.

I don't think you do appreciate what I'm saying because you think I'm having a go, or belittling the situation you and she are in, which I am not. My point is that if there's any sort of loophole, there are some people who will exploit it, and some will lie to exploit it.

This is also why you're being so harshly pursued by the loan company.

thegrind

The loan company doesn't care what excuse is made. Your name was put forward as a guarantor which is fraud; which is illegal. If you cannot report it to police (which is understandable as its your daughter and no position a mother should be put in) then i'm afraid the loan company will have not a thread of sympathy for you and will come to you for the outstanding amount... Until it is paid.

Despite what someones mental illness leads them to do the fact is your daughter with impeccable ability has managed to create a fraudulent activity which involves her mother and grandmother and is causing unnecessary distress to you both.

Maybe reporting to police will be for the best.

skintandfat

I would suggest you write to them for a SAR (Subject Access Request) and ask them to include call recordings and all information.


Then you know what they know.


Next
Ask for a copy of their formal complaints procedure and for details of any trade / regulatory bodies they are registered with


Once you have all the information you can decide how to proceed. You may have to report the crime, but you may find they have lent irresponsibly and breached the guidelines- this could render the loan hard to enforce as your daughter will have no assets (and nothing to take as she is on benefits) and you are not liable for actions of others


Above all, don't take their crap and take control. A letter stating all calls should cease and all communication should be in writing would be good.
You could also ask them to remove any numbers they have on file at the same time.